Cheap lighting - ODNO

[GulfCoastAquarian]

Hmmm, you shouldn't have any trouble driving two 2xODNO bulbs off of one 4xF32T8 ballast. I've actually been using this setup for almost two years. Both bulbs are very bright. I recently changed the bulbs and the new bulbs were only marginally brighter (after 2 years of 2xODNO!).
My guess is that you've got a wiring problem, possibly related to the yellow 'return' leads. Do you have one yellow wire going to each bulb or are they spliced together?

[ksand]

Lacking a real instrument, I a SONY DSC-F717 set up on a tripod. Constant F8 and "spot metering". I used a Sylvania 4X32 electonic ballast. The shutter speed from a single 15W tube driven by a single lead from the ballast becomes the baseline. I took 5 shots of each case to allow for variance.

Single Tube
1 Lead 1/60 - 1/80 sec 15W
2 Leads 1/100 sec 19W 25% increase
3 Leads 1/125 sec 23W 50% increase
4 Leads same as 3

Twin Tubes in Series
1 Lead 1/160 sec 30W
2 Leads 1/200-1/250 sec 38W-45W 25%-50% increase
3 Leads 1/320 sec 60W 100% increase
4 Leads 1/400 sec 75W 150% increase

So if you don't want to hook the smaller tubes in series, you can still get a 50% increase. What amazed me (and I re-ran the test just to make sure) is the 150% increase with the 2 tubes in series. That means that more than 50% of the extra enregy is being converted to light (less to heat). Could the smaller tubes be more efficient? Seems like the opposite should be true.

[ksand]

The yellow leads were not spliced together - each went to its own tube.

[GulfCoastAquarian]

Smaller tubes are definitely more efficient. I believe it is because a greater amount of emitted ions internally actually make it to the phosphors coating the inside of the tube.

F32T8 (1" diameter) - Generally produce 2700 lumens and consume 32W. (~84 lumens/watt).
F40T12 (1.5" diameter) - Generally produce 3000 lumens and consume 40W. (~75 lumens/watt)
55w PC (Basically a T5, bent in half - 5/8" diameter) - Generally produce 5000 lumens of output and consume 55W (~90 lumens/watt)

[GulfCoastAquarian]

Originally Posted by ksand

The yellow leads were not spliced together - each went to its own tube.

That's very unusual then. Did you try switching the dimmer bulb to the other location? Could either be a bad ballast or simply not equipped to handle the total current output so it limits the current going to one of the bulbs.

[ksand]

I do remember verifiying that it wasn't simply a difference in bulbs. I wish I had been more methodical. I do remember noticing that the side that was dim switched at one point, depending on which bulb I put in first, which, as you said, would indicate a problem with the load balancing, possibly caused by my wiring it wrong or a faulty ballast. If it happens again, I'll be sure to make more careful observations. At least I know, from your experience, that 2 tubes on a 4x32 does work.

But this issue may be moot for me, since I've become addicted to driving those tubes to the maximum possible, which means using all 4 leads to a single tube.

Thanks again for the help, Sam, and for a really interesting thread!

[Douglas128]

Hi guys. Just join this forum recently.

I've read that you guys have many successes in "pearling". I was wondering if I should ODNO my lightning system or add more lights to start the "pearling" phenomena?

I have a 30" x 15" x 15" tank with a dual tube hood with reflectors. I am using 1 20 W Azoo Tri phospor tube and 1 20W Azoo Super Light tube. So far, I have not had any "pearling" from the plants even though they grow like mad!

[GulfCoastAquarian]

I would definitely try ODNO on your system. It is a perfect candidate. Right now you've got 40w on a 29g tank, which is only about 1.3 watts/gallon. Even if you were to only do 2xODNO and increase output by 50% to around 2wpg, I believe the difference would be tremendous.

[Douglas128]

OK. Thanks. I will try ODNO probably over this weekend. I will report any successes here.

[John P.]

Originally Posted by Douglas128

Hi guys. Just join this forum recently.

I've read that you guys have many successes in "pearling". I was wondering if I should ODNO my lightning system or add more lights to start the "pearling" phenomena?

I have a 30" x 15" x 15" tank with a dual tube hood with reflectors. I am using 1 20 W Azoo Tri phospor tube and 1 20W Azoo Super Light tube. So far, I have not had any "pearling" from the plants even though they grow like mad!

Proper lighting, nutrition (ferts & CO2) are what you need. I use ODNO & love it.

[Saltydog]

Hello
I've been lurking here for months and this is my first post. All the ideas contained in these pages are very inspiring. Well, down to business:

Background. I have recently aquired a 45 gallon acrylic tank. Prior to aquiring the tank I had thought that it measured 48" inches long and I had started to plan my lighting based on this length. I thought that two 48" Sylvania P&A bulbs(I already scoped them out at Lowes), run off of one FulhamW5 or one Sylvania QT 4x32 would bring me to around 90-100watts or near 2wpg by overdriving x2. I Figured that would be plenty enough to grow low/moderate light plants but not require CO2 as I do not want a high maintanence setup.

But, I soon learned it was only a 36" tank. I thought shoot I don't even remember seeing any P&A bulbs in 36" length. So searching both Lowes and Home Depot I've come up with 2 options. I found that Lowes carrys the 24 inch 20w T12 P&A bulbs, with which I could run 4 bulbs 2 each in series. This would give me near the same as my original plan with the 48"F40T12's, but, I would have to space/overlap them within the hood(hassel). Then I found that Home Depot carries to my suprise 18" by 15watt T8 P&A bulbs. Two of these bulbs should fit nicely without overlap inside the canopy. If I run 4 bulbs, 2 each in series off of one ballast, I would only be getting i'm guessing 80-90watts, which is close but under 2wpg.

First, I know i've heard good things about the Sylvania T12 P&A bulb that Lowes carries, and that good results have been achieved using that bulb. My trip to Home depot was a very short one, so I didn't have time to exam the bulb there, but it is not made by sylvania, and I don't know any other specs for it. I'm going to assume it was the GE P&A bulb and I heard someone mention Lights of America T8 bulbs at Home Depot, but I wont know until I go back and look. I was suprised to find a T8 P&A bulb in the first place at home depot, becuase I was assuming that everyone running these lights was getting thier 18" F15T8s from the expensive rack at Petco.

1) If I were to choose this T8 would it be acceptable, or would it be wiser to stick with the Sylvania T12?

2) If I were to choose to go with 4 of the 15watt T8's, should I get 2 ballasts and run all four leads into 2 bulbs in series and shoot for around 120watts. Would this be too much light for what I want out of my set up. Is it bad to run near 3wpg without CO2? I'm trying for less maintanence.

3) I know that the FulhamW5 is a stronger ballast, but what is the difference bettween running the FulhamW5 and the Sylvania 4x32? Will the Fulham pump a little extra wattage out of the lights.

4) Is anyone aware of any one piece 36" lights that would be appropriate for this set up without having to spend an arm and a leg on lights from specialty websites or the expensive rack at the LFS.
Wow, this post got a little long. Sorry Is there any other possible ideas or setups that would work that I'm not aware of? Any and all suggestions and advice is greatly appriciated

Thanks,
Saltydog

[GulfCoastAquarian]

Originally Posted by Saltydog

1) If I were to choose this T8 would it be acceptable, or would it be wiser to stick with the Sylvania T12?

The Sylvania/OSRAM Plant & Aquarium Gro-Lux bulbs are nice, but honestly, if it were me, I would just find a 36" T8 daylight bulb and be done with it. The Sylvania bulbs aren't good enough to warrant the extra complexity of wiring and mounting 18" bulbs in series.

Originally Posted by Saltydog

2) If I were to choose to go with 4 of the 15watt T8's, should I get 2 ballasts and run all four leads into 2 bulbs in series and shoot for around 120watts. Would this be too much light for what I want out of my set up. Is it bad to run near 3wpg without CO2? I'm trying for less maintanence.

Without CO2, 3wpg could possibly be a situation begging for an algae problem. The nice thing about ODNO is that you could start out with only 2 wires connected (2xODNO), and then connect the rest if/when you decide to go with CO2 supplementation.
I think you'll be fine with 120 watts on your 45 gallon tank, though. Even without CO2. Just shoot for a shorter photoperiod around 8-10 hours.

Originally Posted by Saltydog

3) I know that the FulhamW5 is a stronger ballast, but what is the difference bettween running the FulhamW5 and the Sylvania 4x32? Will the Fulham pump a little extra wattage out of the lights.

Yes, I believe so. Basically, the Workhose 5 is an four bulb electronic ballast with a slightly higher power factor. It is still rated at 128 watts, though (32w x 4).

Originally Posted by Saltydog

4) Is anyone aware of any one piece 36" lights that would be appropriate for this set up without having to spend an arm and a leg on lights from specialty websites or the expensive rack at the LFS.

Just look for a daylight T8 36" bulb with a color rating greater than 5000K. They aren't exactly common, but you shouldn't have too much trouble finding one at a local lighting supply warehouse for around $5-$10 a piece. You'll probably have more luck picking up the yellow pages and finding a lighting supply store than the local Home Depot or Lowe's.

[imnappy2]

Gulfcoast

I am just wondering how much more electricity the odno bulbs pull. I am running 6 bulbs all 2xodno. So do they all pull 1.5 the watts they power compared to just running a normal bulb. So they were like 32 watts and now they are like 48 watts. I am not quite sure how that pulls power now. So is that 48 watts per hour? Not exactly sure about that concept. Some insight into this would be wonderful.

[ksand]

I just ordered a device that measures power usage, and will post results. I want to compare NO vs CF vs ODNO vs T5. It'll be tough to get meaningful results, though, because you really have to measure the light output as well. Anyone out there know anything about measuring light output?

[GulfCoastAquarian]

ksand, the resulsts of those tests will be very interesting indeed, because in theory, 2xODNO draws twice the current but only provides 1 1/2x the output. 4xODNO draws four times the current but only provides 2x the output. Efficiency inside the bulb drops off - the ballast draws current based on the number of outputs you connect and the load they see.

In short - ODNO is probably one of the more "wasteful" forms of lighting since the bulbs do not operate at peak efficiency at these elevated levels. In the end, you have to calculate the total operating costs, including electricity, bulb replacement cost, initial equipment expense, etc.