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Old 02-20-2015, 09:38 PM   #1
treyLcham
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Quarantine tank


So today I got all the supply's I believe needed to make the quarantine tank.
Ammonia
Marine land penguin150
And some pvc pipes that I'm going to put into the tank.
I also got some biomax.
My question is, would it be better to use a 20gallow shot or a 20gallon tall? I have both so I just want to know which one would be better or if it even really matters. Second question is, can I take let's say a full bag of biomax and lay it in the aquarium so that while it is cycling the bacteria can colonize on it as well for my canister filter for the main aquarium when I go to set it up her me in the next month?


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Old 02-20-2015, 10:29 PM   #2
treyLcham
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here is my filter set up


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Old 02-20-2015, 11:10 PM   #3
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Don't think it makes much difference high or long, besides what you're getting for fish... fast schooling fish might appreciate the long better, but then again they're only going to be in there for a little while.

Biomaxx I would put in the filter if there is space, otherwise I'd place it somewhere where there is water moving over/through it. It might not colonize completely but it'll still speed up your cycle significantly in your larger tank.
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Old 02-20-2015, 11:28 PM   #4
treyLcham
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Alright great thanks! And I used a flat peace of plywood under the tank. So will that be enough to keep the fish from thinking there seeing there reflection or will I need to still pray paint it


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Old 02-21-2015, 12:57 AM   #5
Diana
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Are you doing a fishless cycle?

Or are you setting up a quarantine tank for new fish?

Fishless cycle:
Does not matter what size or shape. Well oxygenated is important, so the larger surface area of a shallow, long or breeder style tank would be preferred if you have the choice.
You can add as much media in there as you want, as long as there is good circulation. You can toss loose media into the tank, you can run several filters, any variation you want. Just make sure there is good circulation so the ammonia and oxygen gets to all the media. I have done a fishless cycle running a large canister on a 5 gallon bucket.

Quarantine tank:
You might try setting the tank on a black towel. Not a smooth dark surface, something rough.
I find that a light scattering of fine gravel helps. Not even one rock deep, but perhaps 50% coverage. Slows down the debris when I vacuum so it does not swirl up and into the water column, as well as helping the fish orient to up and down.
PVC pipe ought to make nice caves!
I also add plant trimmings. Just toss them in, let them float.
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Old 02-21-2015, 02:30 AM   #6
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Yea it's going to be my quarantine tank but it's brand new so I'm cycling it using ammonia, but I wanted to throw my bio media from my canister in the aquarium to get it started as well. What do you recommend on the ammonia on how much to make it go to? I'll take a picture of my setup when I get back. I ended up using a what I believe is a 30g tall maybe 25 not really sure. I'm thinking I'm going to add some Anubis in the tank and I'll just run a t-8 fixture that I have. Should look good when I'm done, even though it's a quarantine tank I would like it to look half decent lol. I was super surprisedwhen I went to my local pet superman that they had great looking fish no dead ones and great looking Anubis and had narrow lead Java fern! So I might go get some later this week.


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Old 02-21-2015, 03:34 AM   #7
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So here are the pictures. As you can see on the left I have my pic pipe triangle and on the right I have my canister filter bio media that I will be leaving in there just to try and kinda kickstart the cycle for my big tank when I set it up the lighting is just a t8 bulb because I'm going to add some Anubis


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Old 02-21-2015, 03:42 AM   #8
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Default Quarantine tank

Looks like I grabbed the wrong ammonia bottle woops lol looks like I'll be making a visit to lowes tomorrow again.
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Old 02-21-2015, 01:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treyLcham View Post
Looks like I grabbed the wrong ammonia bottle woops lol looks like I'll be making a visit to lowes tomorrow again.
I tried lowes and home depot for ammonia... no luck all they had scents and anti foaming agents... only place I found pure ammonia was ace hardware

Also a little bit goes a long ways
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Old 02-21-2015, 02:23 PM   #10
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Most do have a hard time finding the right ammonia. All the stores I go to have surfacants in the ammonia even though it is not on the label sometimes. When I shake the bottle foam comes and stays which means soap. Only place I find is Ace hardware. Seems they have the market sewed up?
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Old 02-21-2015, 02:41 PM   #11
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About the ammonia dose:
Here is the fishless cycle. This has the parameters for the ammonia, and all the other things that can help the bacteria grow as fast as possible.

Try also the dollar tree and 98 cent store types of places.

If you have a healthy cycled tank then sharing a bit of media is a good way to jump start the cycle. The more you share the faster it will get going, but do not stress the donor tank by taking too much.
I have removed about 25% of the media from the filter of a well cycled tank and had no problems. Well cycled implies that there is more bacteria on the substrate, the decor and so on. So I really was not removing 1/4 of the bacteria. More like 1/8 of it.

Cycle: To grow the beneficial bacteria that remove ammonia and nitrite from the aquarium.

Fish-In Cycle: To expose fish to toxins while using them as the source of ammonia to grow nitrogen cycle bacteria. Exposure to ammonia burns the gills and other soft tissue, stresses the fish and lowers their immunity. Exposure to nitrite makes the blood unable to carry oxygen. Research methemglobinemia for details.

Fishless Cycle: The safe way to grow more bacteria, faster, in an aquarium, pond or riparium.

The method I give here was developed by 2 scientists who wanted to quickly grow enough bacteria to fully stock a tank all at one time, with no plants helping, and overstock it as is common with Rift Lake Cichlid tanks.

1a) Set up the tank and all the equipment. You can plant if you want. Include the proper dose of dechlorinator with the water.
Optimum water chemistry:
GH and KH above 3 German degrees of hardness. A lot harder is just fine.
pH above 7, and into the mid 8s is just fine.
Temperature in the upper 70s F (mid 20s C) is good. Higher is OK if the water is well aerated.
A trace of other minerals may help. Usually this comes in with the water, but if you have a pinch of KH2PO4, that may be helpful.
High oxygen level. Make sure the filter and power heads are running well. Plenty of water circulation.
No toxins in the tank. If you washed the tank, or any part of the system with any sort of cleanser, soap, detergent, bleach or anything else make sure it is well rinsed. Do not put your hands in the tank when you are wearing any sort of cosmetics, perfume or hand lotion. No fish medicines of any sort.
A trace of salt (sodium chloride) is OK, but not required.
This method of growing bacteria will work in a marine system, too. The species of bacteria are different.

1b) Optional: Add any source of the bacteria that you are growing to seed the tank. Cycled media from a healthy tank is good. Decor or some gravel from a cycled tank is OK. Live plants or plastic are OK. Bottled bacteria is great, but only if it contains Nitrospira species of bacteria. Read the label and do not waste your money on anything else.
At the time this was written the right species could be found in:
Dr. Tims One and Only
Tetra Safe Start
Microbe Lift Nite Out II
...and perhaps others.
You do not have to jump start the cycle. The right species of bacteria are all around, and will find the tank pretty fast.

2) Add ammonia until the test reads 5 ppm. This ammonia is the cheapest you can find. No surfactants, no perfumes. Read the fine print. This is often found at discount stores like Dollar Tree, or hardware stores like Ace. You could also use a dead shrimp form the grocery store, or fish food. Protein breaks down to become ammonia. You do not have good control over the ammonia level, though.
Some substrates release ammonia when they are submerged for the first time. Monitor the level and do enough water changes to keep the ammonia at the levels detailed below.

3) Test daily. For the first few days not much will happen, but the bacteria that remove ammonia are getting started. Finally the ammonia starts to drop. Add a little more, once a day, to test 5 ppm.

4) Test for nitrite. A day or so after the ammonia starts to drop the nitrite will show up. When it does allow the ammonia to drop to 3 ppm.

5) Test daily. Add ammonia to 3 ppm once a day. If the nitrite or ammonia go to 5 ppm do a water change to get these lower. The ammonia removing species and the nitrite removing species (Nitrospira) do not do well when the ammonia or nitrite are over 5 ppm.

6) When the ammonia and nitrite both hit zero 24 hours after you have added the ammonia the cycle is done. You can challenge the bacteria by adding a bit more than 3 ppm ammonia, and it should be able to handle that, too, within 24 hours.

7) Now test the nitrate. Probably sky high!
Do as big a water change as needed to lower the nitrate until it is safe for fish. Certainly well under 20, and a lot lower is better. This may call for more than one water change, and up to 100% water change is not a problem. Remember the dechlor!
If you will be stocking right away (within 24 hours) no need to add more ammonia. If stocking will be delayed keep feeding the bacteria by adding ammonia to 3 ppm once a day. You will need to do another water change right before adding the fish.
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Helpful hints:

A) You can run a fishless cycle in a bucket to grow bacteria on almost any filter media like bio balls, sponges, ceramic bio noodles, lava rock or Matala mats. Simply set up any sort of water circulation such as a fountain pump or air bubbler and add the media to the bucket. Follow the directions for the fishless cycle. When the cycle is done add the media to the filter. I have run a canister filter in a bucket and done the fishless cycle.

B) The nitrogen cycle bacteria will live under a wide range of conditions and bounce back from minor set backs. By following the set up suggestions in part 1a) you are setting up optimum conditions for fastest reproduction and growth.
GH and KH can be as low as 1 degree, but watch it! These bacteria use the carbon in carbonates, and if it is all used up (KH = 0) the bacteria may die off.
pH as low as 6.5 is OK, but by 6.0 the bacteria are not going to be doing very well. They are still there, and will recover pretty well when conditions get better.
Temperature almost to freezing is OK, but they must not freeze, and they are not very active at all. They do survive in a pond, but they are slow to warm up and get going in the spring. This is where you might need to grow some in a bucket in a warm place and supplement the pond population. Too warm is not good, either. Tropical or room temperature tank temperatures are best. (68 to 85*F or 20 to 28*C)
Moderate oxygen can be tolerated for a while. However, to remove lots of ammonia and nitrite these bacteria must have oxygen. They turn one into the other by adding oxygen. If you must stop running the filter for an hour or so, no problem. If longer, remove the media and keep it where it will get more oxygen.
Once the bacteria are established they can tolerate some fish medicines. This is because they live in a complex film called Bio film on all the surfaces in the filter and the tank. Medicines do not enter the bio film well.
These bacteria do not need to live under water. They do just fine in a humid location. They live in healthy garden soil, as well as wet locations.

C) Planted tanks may not tolerate 3 ppm or 5 ppm ammonia. It is possible to cycle the tank at lower levels of ammonia so the plants do not get ammonia burn. Add ammonia to only 1 ppm, but test twice a day, and add ammonia as needed to keep it at 1 ppm. The plants are also part of the bio filter, and you may be able to add the fish sooner, if the plants are thriving.
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Old 02-21-2015, 03:25 PM   #12
treyLcham
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlantedRich View Post
Most do have a hard time finding the right ammonia. All the stores I go to have surfacants in the ammonia even though it is not on the label sometimes. When I shake the bottle foam comes and stays which means soap. Only place I find is Ace hardware. Seems they have the market sewed up?

Yea I forgot to shake the bottle and so when I got back from Lowes I shared it and there it was soap. I well guess we all have made that mistake lol. I'll try ace


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Old 02-21-2015, 08:09 PM   #13
treyLcham
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Do you think I'll need an air stone for the tank? I'm going to be running the temp at about 80 to speed the process up a little bit. Here are the pictures of the water movement, and that is a penguin 150 so idk if image wheel it self is giving it a lot of oxygen into the water or not.


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Old 02-21-2015, 09:53 PM   #14
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Dollar stores usually carry the non sudsing ammonia as well.
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Old 02-22-2015, 02:37 AM   #15
treyLcham
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I cool then I'll check there since it's close! What do you guys think about the water movement? Do I need an air stone or no?


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