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Old 08-24-2012, 01:57 AM   #796
Francis Xavier
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Thank you! I have a couple more questions, if you don't mind.

In your directions above, you said to take a 45 minute break after the water has finished dripping into the bucket, but the only measurement you gave of how long it takes to drip the water in the bucket was in reference to the amount of water being dripped. There's no time given. The time can vary greatly, depending on how fast or slow you make the drip. So about how long would you say it takes for you to drip the water into the bucket before your 45 minute break?

Also, I have large tanks running CO2 (75g and 90g). I've always been concerned about adding fish in these tanks because of the CO2. Both tanks have a high CO2 saturation (drop checkers are yellow). What I've been doing is performing a 50% water change to cut the CO2 saturation in the tank before adding new fish. However, I have not been turning the CO2 off after that. Is doing the 50% water change first the best idea or do you have a better suggestion? Also, if I did keep the CO2 off for the remainder of the day, will the fish be okay when the CO2 jumps back to its normal high saturation level the next day? Just how much will the CO2 affect new fish? (It might be helpful to note that I also have a high oxygen level in the tanks based on the amount of pearling seen in the tanks.)

Thank you so much for offering to help answer these questions! I've actually been wondering about some of these things, especially since I just added 50 new amanos and a couple new plecos to my tanks.
Hey Complexity,

You can do a 50% water change before hand to increase oxygen levels and decrease co2 concentrations for sure - however, is typically unnecessary. Just as long as you turn off Co2 and raise your filtration output so that the water is becoming oxygenated.

Over time fish can become adapted to higher Co2 concentrations, however initially I tend to lower my Co2 output into the aquarium, as in most cases, we are using more Co2 than is necessary when there are no fish in the aquarium. Then slowly over time I increase the Co2 level going into the aquarium. Especially with a plant such as Riccia, you can get to quite a high level of Co2 over time.

In a 75 gal, stick to about 5-6 BPS depending on where the diffuser is located in the aquarium. Though in such a large aquarium you typically can get away with 9-10 BPS.

In Nano's, 2-3 is good. In a 20 gallon 3-5 is good. The best method is to make slow changes over time.

Keeping the Co2 off for the remainder of the day they're acclimated gives them time to settle and rest from the stresses of transportation - by the next day, when Co2 normally comes on and begins to saturate the water, it's a much less jarring experience. If you choose to do it same day, wait about 4 hours.

As for the volume of water into the bucket - you want to roughly double the amount of water that the fish originally came in. In a Nano it's super simple since you merely drain the tank water about 1.5" down (or in an ADA tank w/lily pipes, to where the outflow begins).

This should be done over about a 20-30 minute interval at least - so make those knots tight!

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Originally Posted by ajmckay View Post
Hey Frank, I've read this whole thread over the past few days and I feel like I've learned a lot. I'm a reef keeper about to attempt my first planted aquaria. Recently I've decided that I am going to wait a little while before starting my tank though so that I can more thoroughly study "the method" and really have a good plan laid out of what I need to do. I also have a lot of materials to obtain. I have the tank and an HOB filter and that's about it.

Maybe I missed something, but is the current M supposed to be the "challenge" tank that was discussed earlier in the thread?

Finally, nice write up on drip acclimation. I used a similar method for acclimating marine fish as well. I would maybe mention that if the tank water is heated that a temperature acclimation procedure would also be required which could be putting the fish into a tupperware or a bag and floating it in the tank for the last portion of the procedure.
On the temperature bit - that's a great piece of additive advice. Fortunately, most planted aquariums are kept at room temperature, and if you allow the fish in the bag's water to sit for about 10-15 minutes it'll get to room temperature as well.

Temperature is one of the biggest shocks to fish acclimating - so either float the bag for 10-15 or let em sit alone for 10-15 minutes if your planted aquarium is kept at room temperature (really, the only need for a heater ever for a planted aquarium is if you live in an extreme cold temperature state - and don't keep a kind of heater on during the winter. Room temps of roughly 60 degrees often net a water temperature of about 70-74 in my experience, and water will stay at about 76-78 even if room temperature is around 85).

This layout isn't the challenge aquarium - I've gotten caught up in a lot of tasks in the day, but it'll come sooner or later. Probably after my next move in September.

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Originally Posted by SaltyNC View Post
Great write-up Frank. That's how I added my Boraras brigittae the other day, and they are doing great. The one thing I would add is that it does seem to make the fish more comfortable if you place something in the bucket. In your photos, the dark airline tubing can be that "something". I placed a stone in my bucket, and they instantly grouped around that. Fish like structure. Even though the bucket is a very temporary part of their stressful journey, and it's relatively trivial, I think everything we can do to reduce stress is a plus. For the dip net, the Fluval shrimp net works very well for nano fish. It doesn't collapse around them but remains open, so less contact with their delicate fins. I could coax them into the net without aggressively chasing them, and then simply placed the net in the tank and allowed them to swim out when ready --a very gentle process.

I've really enjoyed my Petco bookshelf experiment, but I'm about ready to get on with my ADA tank. You post too much eye-candy! Cannot...resist....can...not...resist. I'll be contacting you soon.
Absolutely! An object helps the fish - if I have trimmings available or if the fish have to sit in a bucket for long periods of time for whatever reason, I'll typically throw some trimmings from stem plants or the like into the bucket for them. This does a lot to provide shade and some natural filtration (albeit small scale) in the bucket temporarily.
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Old 08-24-2012, 02:01 AM   #797
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And here's today's photo update, with the tank levels restored and me turning on Co2 for the first time since last night:



I've once again taken on the enjoyment of feeding the fish - which is something quite fun to sit back and watch with the schooling microrasbora variety's.

As such, I'll just take a second to say again that we often forget about fish in the course of the planted aquarium with so much focus on the plants - but really, it's the right fish that bring the whole picture together and make the final picture so great.

Fish have a way of bringing the whole layout into life and brings an aquascape from "cool" territory into "stare at for hours and get lost into it" status.

It's easy to get tunnel vision - so don't forget about the fish that you should add to your layout to complete the scene!
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Old 08-24-2012, 02:26 AM   #798
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And here's today's photo update, with the tank levels restored and me turning on Co2 for the first time since last night:



I've once again taken on the enjoyment of feeding the fish - which is something quite fun to sit back and watch with the schooling microrasbora variety's.

As such, I'll just take a second to say again that we often forget about fish in the course of the planted aquarium with so much focus on the plants - but really, it's the right fish that bring the whole picture together and make the final picture so great.

Fish have a way of bringing the whole layout into life and brings an aquascape from "cool" territory into "stare at for hours and get lost into it" status.

It's easy to get tunnel vision - so don't forget about the fish that you should add to your layout to complete the scene!
Huh? Oh, sorry. I was too busy staring at the tank to read. Looks amazing as always Frank. I'll get there one day.
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Old 08-24-2012, 03:11 AM   #799
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Thank you, Frank, to take the time to answer my questions. My setup is a little different so I can't do everything exactly as you suggested, but I get the basic concepts and can apply them equally as well. It sounds like most of what I'm doing is pretty much on target except I'm going to start leaving the CO2 off for the day when adding new fish. I actually like that idea, and it resolves a concern I've had for awhile.

The tank is looking great, as always! Love the fish! Their color couldn't be more perfectly matched for that tank.
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Old 08-24-2012, 03:18 AM   #800
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I have a specific question. When fish have been in a bag for 2-3 days due to shipping, it's my understanding that the ammonia in the water has built up. But because the bag is sealed, it's less harmful to the fish somehow. However, the instant you open the bag, there is a chemical reaction (CO2 and pH maybe?) that causes the ammonia to become much more toxic.

As a result, I generally add a tiny bit of Prime into my 5g bucket just before opening the bag and releasing the new fish into the bucket. I've always done this to help protect the fish from the ammonia in the shipping water.

What do you think of the issues of ammonia in the water from shipping and how to handle it? Is the way I handle it a good idea or is there a better way?

Bc I lost an HMPK even though I acclimated him for over an hour.

Is it possible that he had been so ammonia stressed during the flight that he was too far gone when I received him?

I feel like I let him and his previous owner down.
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Old 08-24-2012, 05:20 AM   #801
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Bc I lost an HMPK even though I acclimated him for over an hour.

Is it possible that he had been so ammonia stressed during the flight that he was too far gone when I received him?

I feel like I let him and his previous owner down.
What is the long form name of HMPK? Rather, what does the abbreviation stand for.
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Old 08-24-2012, 08:54 AM   #802
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HMPK = Half Moon Plakat
http://www.bettafishtalk.com/attachm...2&d=1342138497
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Old 08-24-2012, 02:50 PM   #803
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Bc I lost an HMPK even though I acclimated him for over an hour.

Is it possible that he had been so ammonia stressed during the flight that he was too far gone when I received him?

I feel like I let him and his previous owner down.
I didn't know bettas to be so sensitive - but it's possible that those more upscale breeds are (not my area of expertise admittedly), similar to how higher grade CRS become more delicate.

Did you get it next day air, 2nd day or priority mail / normal shipping?
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Old 08-24-2012, 05:47 PM   #804
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I have a small clump of java moss that I just leave float freely in my water change bucket (it gets dechlorinated and left to sit during the week for minor topping off and aging for the Saturday water change). Whenever I get new shrimp or fish (as infrequent as it may be), I just move it over to the acclimatisation bucket. Gives them a place to hide, a piece of greenery to hang out around, some biofilm to munch on and, like you mentioned, some minor bio filtration. And since java moss is unkillable, all it takes is the ambient lighting in the room to keep it going.

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Absolutely! An object helps the fish - if I have trimmings available or if the fish have to sit in a bucket for long periods of time for whatever reason, I'll typically throw some trimmings from stem plants or the like into the bucket for them. This does a lot to provide shade and some natural filtration (albeit small scale) in the bucket temporarily.
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Old 08-24-2012, 05:52 PM   #805
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It was an adoption so she shipped him priority on Saturday and he arrived Monday at 3 pm.

He was delivered to the door.

But he was so very pale with brown stress stripes and he was supposed to be red.

She warned me that he lost color when he got stressed and that he was the smallest of his spawn mates and the only male she'd known that ever got stress stripes.

Gah!

Sorry am babbling bc of lingering guilt issues.

Today am drip acclimating my female betta to her new big 5 gallon tank which has driftwood in it so it's pH is different.

Thank you so much for this thread!
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Old 08-24-2012, 05:54 PM   #806
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I have a small clump of java moss that I just leave float freely in my water change bucket (it gets dechlorinated and left to sit during the week for minor topping off and aging for the Saturday water change). Whenever I get new shrimp or fish (as infrequent as it may be), I just move it over to the acclimatisation bucket. Gives them a place to hide, a piece of greenery to hang out around, some biofilm to munch on and, like you mentioned, some minor bio filtration. And since java moss is unkillable, all it takes is the ambient lighting in the room to keep it going.
This is a genius Idea!
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Old 08-24-2012, 06:27 PM   #807
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Absolutely some plant matter will help ease some stress off the fish - it sounds like the Betta you received before was probably a bit too delicate. It happens, and I don't think it was your fault that he died.

It's common for fish to arrive with faded and pale coloration - so don't panic if you see that. However, so long as you are taking all the necessary steps, you're doing all that you can do. Sometimes, a fish just won't make it no matter what you do.
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Old 08-24-2012, 07:45 PM   #808
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Bc I lost an HMPK even though I acclimated him for over an hour.

Is it possible that he had been so ammonia stressed during the flight that he was too far gone when I received him?

I feel like I let him and his previous owner down.
unless he was traveling for over 2 days, i dont think it was NH3 poisoning. honestly, bettas are particularly resilient to NH3 and NO2, likely in part due to having really sh*tty gills (which is where these toxins enter the fish).
and they tend to be hardy with acclimation too.
if he died a week later, i would bet parasites. fish can live with parasites for years without any symptoms, but after a major stressor (like shipping) they cant handle the parasite load anymore and die.
what i do when i ship bettas, is put a drop of Prime in the bag. it binds out NH3 for 24-48 hours, so usually there is 0 NH3 when the fish arrives. i will also add a drop upon first opening a bag of a fish shipped to me, to neutralize any NH3 that may have accumulated so the poisoning stops instantly, and not 40 min later when i finish acclimating.
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Old 08-24-2012, 08:43 PM   #809
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For any of you instagrammers out there, I've started up on that app.

You can find me at @fwazeter
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Old 08-24-2012, 08:53 PM   #810
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I've never heard of the ap. What's it for?
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