Frank's Planted Tank How-To Mini Novel - The Mini S Returns! New Layout - Page 41
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > General Planted Tank Forums > Planted Nano Tanks


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-16-2012, 07:47 PM   #601
pejerrey
Wannabe Guru
 
pejerrey's Avatar
 
PTrader: (12/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Oakland, California
Posts: 1,931
Default

Pardon my ignorance.
I think that if you will still provide co2, then it may be more than low tech?
I don't know. Can't you try without any co2 input?
__________________

A heavily planted shrimp tank is possible!
pejerrey is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-16-2012, 08:10 PM   #602
Francis Xavier
Planted Tank Jedi
 
PTrader: (24/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 1,800
Default

Well, the reality is there isn't much at all that distinguishes a low-tech from a high-tech.

When it comes to the aquascape, it's an independent factor and has nothing to do with equipment.

As for the plants - they have the same needs to grow regardless of conditions, and the way in which they grow is determined by meeting these needs.

Many aquarists who are first inspired by plants likely see them at a petco or a petsmart and consider them as a good addition to their aquaria. Having bought the aquatic plant, they bring it home, plant it in the best method they know how (with little or no direction) and watch as the plant slowly dies.

What's not being met? Proper conditions, which we supplement with equipment - better lights and co2 namely. Fertilizers, additives and tools follow after.

The challenge isn't so much to create the 'lowest tech,' possible layout, rather to drill down and create something that skirts the fear of investment in pressurized co2.

Co2 is required - regardless of what approach for diffusion is used. There are some plants, of course, which can resist a lack of co2 for a while, but the goal isn't to use anubias and some moss exclusively to a layout that takes two years to develop to prove a point.

What the search is for - is to make the easiest possible, fastest possible, layout eliminating as much as possible from the equation.

In reality, I believe 'low-tech,' to be much harder than the 'high-tech,' equivalents, due to it's limiting nature. The thing of it is, it being unnecessarily harder.
Francis Xavier is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-16-2012, 09:15 PM   #603
pejerrey
Wannabe Guru
 
pejerrey's Avatar
 
PTrader: (12/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Oakland, California
Posts: 1,931
Default

Aha! Now I understand more what you mean with "harder", it's harder to achieve a goal, an envisioned aquascape with more limitation, right?
Say, light, dosing, gas... Therefore flora.

It's like the EI premise.

Thanks for answering that, I was confused.
__________________

A heavily planted shrimp tank is possible!
pejerrey is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-16-2012, 09:26 PM   #604
talontsiawd
Planted Tank Guru
 
talontsiawd's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Concord, CA
Posts: 3,639
Send a message via AIM to talontsiawd
Default

Frank,
I think you will enjoy low tech. I have grown just about everything in a low tech tank. I had a pearling carpet of HC in a very under filtered 10 gallon with a CFL light fixture. I have another tank where I am successfully growing just about anything in Petco gravel.

It's the same thing as high tech, you need to find the balance. The only difference is you can't increase your CO2. Use light as your limiting factor, as most do with high tech (assuming they have living things in the tank).

The initial start up sucks because you just wait and wait. Once it comes together, it's really simple. You don't need consistent water changes, you don't need to trim, you don't even need to clean the glass. In my 5 gallon, I may clean the inside of the glass every few months. I clean the outside much more regularly than the inside.

The only really hard part of low tech is finding a good light. Most fixtures are pretty poor for low light. That and patience.
talontsiawd is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-16-2012, 10:57 PM   #605
Francis Xavier
Planted Tank Jedi
 
PTrader: (24/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 1,800
Default

I also need a name for this layout
Francis Xavier is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-17-2012, 03:42 AM   #606
pejerrey
Wannabe Guru
 
pejerrey's Avatar
 
PTrader: (12/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Oakland, California
Posts: 1,931
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Xavier View Post
I also need a name for this layout
Low Rider, the FX method limited edition.
__________________

A heavily planted shrimp tank is possible!
pejerrey is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-17-2012, 10:01 PM   #607
Francis Xavier
Planted Tank Jedi
 
PTrader: (24/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 1,800
Default

I did a trimming of the Riccia two days ago. If anyone wants a tennis-ball portion of Riccia, I'll let it go for $12 shipped.



Full tank shot - keeping Riccia healthy and green from top to bottom via trimming keeps it growing in smaller and smaller to get that refined "thin" look.



Right side - a meadow of light & green.



Left side - contrast and texture.
Francis Xavier is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-18-2012, 01:46 AM   #608
Dollface
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (77/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Alameda, CA
Posts: 2,214
Default

It's kind of neat to look at that mock up I did a while back, and it's almost spot on. Do I get a gold star?

The actual tank though, its more stunning than I even guessed. You're right, the texture, the contrast, it's truly awesome.
__________________
Wabi Kusa is just an Aquascape Katamari
Dollface is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-18-2012, 05:40 AM   #609
mahko
Planted Member
 
mahko's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Calgary
Posts: 174
Default

What's your thoughts on trimming HC? All the way to the substrate? After trimming mine the other day, I noticed how thick it has gotten and the bottom leaves (near the aqua soil) were starting to die off.
__________________
mahko is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-18-2012, 02:49 PM   #610
Francis Xavier
Planted Tank Jedi
 
PTrader: (24/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 1,800
Default

Hey Mahko,

Yes, I would trim HC to the substrate.
Francis Xavier is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-18-2012, 04:39 PM   #611
@marko@
Planted Tank Guru
 
@marko@'s Avatar
 
PTrader: (55/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: livingston, nj
Posts: 5,675
Default

when you trim your HC do you just give it a haircut, or do you dilligently trim stem by stem so as to not damage foliage and such?
__________________
@marko@ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-18-2012, 05:03 PM   #612
Francis Xavier
Planted Tank Jedi
 
PTrader: (24/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 1,800
Default

I give it a straight hair cut, like Riccia, Hair Grass, Tennellus and glosso.

You can use precision stem-by-stem trimming (and I do) but only to remove specific stems, like one that might have bba on it, or one that's rotting a bit or has algae on it that you don't like (more common of Tennellus).

But for actually trimming it back you just want to mow it.
Francis Xavier is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-18-2012, 05:10 PM   #613
Francis Xavier
Planted Tank Jedi
 
PTrader: (24/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 1,800
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dollface View Post
It's kind of neat to look at that mock up I did a while back, and it's almost spot on. Do I get a gold star?
It is kind of cool that you were able to get the impression spot on! And yes, that's gold star worthy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dollface View Post
The actual tank though, its more stunning than I even guessed. You're right, the texture, the contrast, it's truly awesome.
Thanks for the compliment!

You know, this reminds me of a good point, and a story of mine.

In 2008, when I was first inspired to create a planted aquascape, I would spend hours looking at Amano's work.

The iwagumi in particular, was amazing and soon I had my own layouts ready to go. But, whenever I put together a layout, for some reason the plant growths just never quite looked the same, and I couldn't figure out precisely why.

I'd tried one carpet plant, multiples, it just wasn't looking like I wanted.

In the end - I discovered that the real difference, wasn't the individual carpets or anything like that, it was the use of plants to create texture in the layout - using Riccia as a huge tool to create that extra bit of texture and contrast makes a HUGE impact on how the layout looks down the road.

In fact, this is probably why I will be using Riccia a lot for the foreseeable future.
Francis Xavier is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-21-2012, 06:48 AM   #614
Francis Xavier
Planted Tank Jedi
 
PTrader: (24/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 1,800
Default



Another day in paradise

There is nothing quite as enjoyable to watch as a field of shimmering Riccia - a plant which once you master tying of it to stones, and proper placement is easily one of the most pleasurable plants out there.

Riccia gives the impression that the layout is smiling at you.
Francis Xavier is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-22-2012, 07:51 PM   #615
tigerali
Algae Grower
 
tigerali's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 14
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Xavier View Post
NPT's use no filtration and no artificial lighting. The problem is, there is no such thing as an infinitely self-sustaining planted aquarium.
Frank, thank you for your journal. I've been following this thread with quite some interest. I'm not sure any one has mentioned it yet, however, but I disagree with this statement.

First, if you look to Walstad as the patron saint of contemporary NPT, she allows for artificial lighting, though that is low and even lower if the tank catches direct sunlight. I believe this is actually in her book.

Second, I think post-publication, Walstad has noted that filtration can be used (the book recommends against filtration outside of the initial set up, but she's softened her stance since it came out I think). Certainly the NPT community either uses filtration through the entire process or at least carbon to help clean up the newly set up tank. Again, her posts on the semi-official NPT forums on APC suggest this shift in methodology.

Third, if you read Walstad's book, she never makes the claim that her NPT method is self sustaining, and I daresay there are no tanks that can make that claim, as you very rightly note. Instead, she advocates that input in the form of food will help see the tank through as plants use up the (admittedly long term) initial nutrients from potting soil.

Finally, while this wasn't Frank's statement, someone commented that NPT tend to be dirty tanks with ugly plants. I've seen some beautiful NPT tanks and unless you're very much in the mindset that iwagumi is the only beautiful tank style, I'd argue that any tank with healthy plants and fish can be charming in its own way - even java moss can be gorgeous with some maintenance. As there isn't a lot of other plants iwagumi, can be aesthetically displeasing as well and for me - who still considers plants secondary to fish - many fish would be happier in an densely planted NPT than in a "barer" iwagumi (anabantoids come to mind immediately).

Anyway, returning to Frank, as a Japanese studies graduate, it appears your approach to methodology approximates the rival schools kind of understanding often present in Japanese arts - especially martial arts and calligraphy (the latter which I know much better).

In any case, I don't post this as an expert on anything; just to point out that your definition of NPT doesn't seem to match what's actually written in the cornerstone text on the matter, nor the forum, nor actual practice. Apologies if I've misunderstood or anything - I just know for the areas in which I consider myself a hobbyist with real knowledge (and aquaria is most certainly not one) I'd like to be called out, because getting better is much better than being right.
tigerali is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Tags
francis wazeter, francis xavier, frank wazeter, nature aquarium, planted tank how to

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012