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Old 04-20-2012, 02:11 AM   #496
Francis Xavier
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I currently have 25 in the mini m, which is about a perfect number so far.

The aquarium ecosystem will naturally balance out the population. Better to start with slightly more within reason and in the healthiest circumstance possible than to have way too few.

Having too little is unhealthy for most of the shoaling fish - they like to hang an play together, they're social critters.

The filter power provides exercise and artificially enhances space - kind of like a lap pool that's only 7 feet or so and has tide movement going.

The population will over time naturally balance with the environment. The weak will die off (there's always a few no matter what) and the rest will thrive.

Remember principle #2! Minimums!

the population will likely level off at 20 or so if there are any weak ones. So far they are all very strong.

Additionally such a heavy plant presence lends comfort and extra powerful filtration for the inhabitants.

What you're seeing now is a super-pumped filtration system of bacteria and plants. You see it in the clarity of the water and the immediate playful and instinctual behavior of the fish - immediately with appetite and action.

Some have already began spawning dances with one another after three days in shipping and a full day in a bucket with an air stone.
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Old 04-20-2012, 03:30 AM   #497
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Question, before you added the fish, we're you feeding the Amanos and Otos at all or were they self sustainable on the algae? I think I have made my Amanos lazy, they wait for feeding time and each take a micro pellet to chew on... I have to feed my betta though. Any thoughts?
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Old 04-20-2012, 03:33 AM   #498
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Hey Radioman,

This tank is in my personal home, not at ADG hq.

ADG will be open tomorrow between 9-5.
Haha I know I was just being funny since you said to come to your house. I would like to go to ADG sometime though. Is it just like a supplier warehouse or an actual store?

I keep editing this. Do you trim your riccia or pull the rocks up and tie the riccia back on when it gets to big?
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:14 AM   #499
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You're not worried about jumpers? I had 6 CPD's in my cube until they all committed suicide one by one over a week...now I have 1 left. I want to get it some buddies, but don't want to pick up dried up fish every morning.
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:36 AM   #500
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The fish are beautiful and really complement the tank. Great choice!
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Old 04-20-2012, 05:01 AM   #501
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Question, before you added the fish, we're you feeding the Amanos and Otos at all or were they self sustainable on the algae? I think I have made my Amanos lazy, they wait for feeding time and each take a micro pellet to chew on... I have to feed my betta though. Any thoughts?
I never feed the Amano's or Otos (unless they're in a non-planted holding tank). The reason is they become spoiled on these foods and lose the instinct to perpetually look for algae to eat for survival.

Think of it like a Dog. You give your Dog normal Dog food, but when you have meat available, they will always defer to the meat and if you continually give them meat, they will leave the dog food in the container to rot, regardless of health priorities or anything else.

I would say to feed your betta less - maybe a small amount once a day or every other day, only enough for the betta to eat in one sitting. You can always add more food, so start with less and slowly build up.

Consequently, Amano's and ocats will only thrive to the extent to which available algae is present. So if there is a dramatic decline in algae growth, they will begin to starve and some may die. Again, it's about balance.

I recommend starting with more initially to beat back algae, then slowly remove a few. Some will naturally die off as they go, and that's okay, though it's best to try to avoid it. Having a back up tank with plants in it is always good for "spill-over" Amanos.

The aquarium will always attempt to balance itself out, whether that's through extreme algae growth, algae eater die off, or etc. This happens on both a macro (fish, plant, algae) and micro (bacteria) scale.

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Haha I know I was just being funny since you said to come to your house. I would like to go to ADG sometime though. Is it just like a supplier warehouse or an actual store?

I keep editing this. Do you trim your riccia or pull the rocks up and tie the riccia back on when it gets to big?
Hey if you'd like to come by my apartment to see the aquarium in person that's totally alright. But you'll have to schedule with me ahead of time! Roommates and such.

I trim my Riccia. Adding rocks of riccia on top of them tends to be a bit inelegant and creates sloppy riccia. Alternatively having to pull up the stone with the Riccia to retie massively disrupts the aquascape and should only be deployed when absolutely necessary. A favorite technique of mine is to use some of the trimmings to add smaller accent stones of Riccia when applicable.

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You're not worried about jumpers? I had 6 CPD's in my cube until they all committed suicide one by one over a week...now I have 1 left. I want to get it some buddies, but don't want to pick up dried up fish every morning.
I'm not worried about jumpers at all, for two reasons:

1.) A fish will only jump if there is something wrong with the tank. If the aquarium is balanced, they have no reason to attempt to leave the water.

This means balance of co2, oxygen, water parameters / quality, plant growth etc.

2.) The only other time a fish will jump is when startled and when they are timid. Choosing a species only tank where they are comfortable (large school) makes them less skittish, more at home and less likely to get startled. Also place your aquarium in a quiet place and train the fish to be excited at your presence (aided by feeding small amounts when you do certain gestures, all fish will learn to recognize you or your motions).

An easy way to avoid accidental fish jumping due to being startled is to not fill your tank completely to the brim, this way if they accidentally get caught up in flow or are scared of something and bolt, they don't have the extra momentum of the water being filled to the top (making it very very easy to jump), when the aquarium level is even 1/4 inch or 1/2 inch below the rim it significantly blocks jumping.

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The fish are beautiful and really complement the tank. Great choice!
Thank you! I think a lot of people vastly underestimate the value of fish to finish the scape's look. It's the last element to be added, and in many cases, the most important.

Zen is the best way to describe it, without sounding corny.
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Old 04-20-2012, 05:23 AM   #502
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Hey Frank, my HC Cuba is looking a lot better since taking your advice. How long do I have to dose K and Iron? I been doing it daily and the colour is coming back, the new leafs are still a bit yellow.
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Old 04-20-2012, 05:30 AM   #503
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Hey Frank, my HC Cuba is looking a lot better since taking your advice. How long do I have to dose K and Iron? I been doing it daily and the colour is coming back, the new leafs are still a bit yellow.
I dose K and Iron every day. If you're on a once a week dosing schedule then it would be to continually up the amount in small increments until all new leaves are appearing green. In any event, if new growth is still yellow, continue to slowly up the amount of K / Iron you dose.
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Old 04-20-2012, 05:45 AM   #504
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I'm not worried about jumpers at all, for two reasons:

1.) A fish will only jump if there is something wrong with the tank. If the aquarium is balanced, they have no reason to attempt to leave the water.

This means balance of co2, oxygen, water parameters / quality, plant growth etc.

2.) The only other time a fish will jump is when startled and when they are timid. Choosing a species only tank where they are comfortable (large school) makes them less skittish, more at home and less likely to get startled. Also place your aquarium in a quiet place and train the fish to be excited at your presence (aided by feeding small amounts when you do certain gestures, all fish will learn to recognize you or your motions).

An easy way to avoid accidental fish jumping due to being startled is to not fill your tank completely to the brim, this way if they accidentally get caught up in flow or are scared of something and bolt, they don't have the extra momentum of the water being filled to the top (making it very very easy to jump), when the aquarium level is even 1/4 inch or 1/2 inch below the rim it significantly blocks jumping.
You forgot the third reason and the reason mine did it initially I think. Breeding frenzy. And now that I think about it, aggression will do it too. I've had fish jump and hit the top of my 125 gallon and almost knock the glass lid off.

The schooling idea works (I have 100 lemon tetras in my 125, but in an 8 gallon cube, the entire tank is their "school").

I do agree with you however, on lower the water level. However, it seems a shame to have a rimless tank and then not use the top part. Since my jumpers were all at night when I was asleep (so no excess O2 or light flashing on and off or people walking by in my office), I am going to actually put a lid on it at night. Just wanting for the clips now. I do appreciate your input, but can't agree with your reason one. Maybe I should have gone with rasboras and not CPD's. Since the CPD's are surface feeders, they makes them more prone to problems maybe. I have 10 tiger shrimp, 12 C. habrosus, and 3 otos in there and none of those have attempted to leave the tank, even when it was at the rim.
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Old 04-20-2012, 07:00 AM   #505
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Jumpers, that's what cats are for.
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:27 PM   #506
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Great tank Frank. I'm looking to set up one similar to yours but using a 45-P. Would the ADA solar mini lamp strech enough to cover a 45cm long ?
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Old 04-20-2012, 05:07 PM   #507
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Jumpers, that's what cats are for.
Got one of those too. Had 3 of them, that's why I never went topless before this tank. Gets expensive replacing fish every week though.
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Old 04-20-2012, 07:20 PM   #508
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Great tank Frank. I'm looking to set up one similar to yours but using a 45-P. Would the ADA solar mini lamp strech enough to cover a 45cm long ?
The Solar Mini you can maneuver to -mostly- cover the 45-P but since it has a base plate you would need to incorporate some ingenuity when it comes to using a garden mat to compensate and make the tank level.

Much easier recommendation is to go with the Solar II. This will provide more adequate lighting for this size and fit much better.

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You forgot the third reason and the reason mine did it initially I think. Breeding frenzy. And now that I think about it, aggression will do it too. I've had fish jump and hit the top of my 125 gallon and almost knock the glass lid off.

The schooling idea works (I have 100 lemon tetras in my 125, but in an 8 gallon cube, the entire tank is their "school").

I do agree with you however, on lower the water level. However, it seems a shame to have a rimless tank and then not use the top part. Since my jumpers were all at night when I was asleep (so no excess O2 or light flashing on and off or people walking by in my office), I am going to actually put a lid on it at night. Just wanting for the clips now. I do appreciate your input, but can't agree with your reason one. Maybe I should have gone with rasboras and not CPD's. Since the CPD's are surface feeders, they makes them more prone to problems maybe. I have 10 tiger shrimp, 12 C. habrosus, and 3 otos in there and none of those have attempted to leave the tank, even when it was at the rim.
Some species are definitely more prone to jumping than others: for example, hatchets will sail right out of the room.

By and large if we're speaking in broad strokes about fish, they will not jump if given no reason to. Excess aggression (breeding frenzy as an example!), poor water quality, too much co2, etc.

Jumping tends to be a mechanism of survival instinct or feeding.

If you keep your nano tank at about the water level I have mine at, you can keep it safe and prevent most jumpage.

General rule is healthy bacteria = healthy plants = healthy fish.

Of course, some specific species just like to jump for a fly or something.
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Old 04-20-2012, 07:37 PM   #509
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The Solar Mini you can maneuver to -mostly- cover the 45-P but since it has a base plate you would need to incorporate some ingenuity when it comes to using a garden mat to compensate and make the tank level.

Much easier recommendation is to go with the Solar II. This will provide more adequate lighting for this size and fit mucCh better.
Trouble with the solar 2 is it needs to be suspended I'm after one that either sits on the tank or next to it via a stand
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Old 04-20-2012, 09:05 PM   #510
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If you keep your nano tank at about the water level I have mine at, you can keep it safe and prevent most jumpage.

Thanks. I'm doing that now. Lesson learned too late. But I'll be putting a lid on it at night and replacing the CPD's once I get that lid. Saddens me to cover up such a beautiful tank though...
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