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Old 01-02-2012, 09:59 PM   #1
Studman0143
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Major Plant Issues - Help is wanted


So I've had this tank running for about 1 month now and it's not really going as well as I had thought. I knew I would have some problems here and there and so I'm very understanding that things can happen, but I don't know of a solution at this point.

You can find my tank journal here

I have 36W total over the tank for about 10 hours a day, a Fluval 205 and it sits at 75 degrees. I don't have water parameters right now as I don't own a test kit, but Utah water is generally harder and has a higher pH (7.4?). I am using tap water (wanted to mix it with RO water, but the store shut down that had it.) I've been doing a 20-40% water change each week (mostly cuz the wood is still releasing tannins) and each time I dose 5-10mL of Fourish, Potassium, & Iron. And I dose 5mL of excel 2-3 times a week. Sub is FloraMax on top of Organic MiracleGro.

Currently there are no fish/shrimp in here. I am thinking maybe I need to get some Amano's or something, but I need to make sure the water is safe.

For the most par the very bottoms of the plants are melted, mostly due to lack of light? I know the Bacopa didn't acclimate well so it's very dead at the bottom but very bright and green at the top and growing fast. The Limnophila aromatica & Tiger Lotus are directly under the light as I saw them to be more demanding. Recently the Lotus has started turning green whereas the past 3 weeks it's been is nice red color. Any idea why?

The Wisteria is doing fine, the Cardimine lyrata isn't doing nearly as great as I thought. Kind of growing, but dying at the bottom. The Blyxa just sucks (I've heard it's because of how hard Utah water is.) :rant:
[Summary of questions are at the very bottom]

Here is the Hygrophila Corymbosa 'Kompakt' before and after (12/20 & 1/2)



My Tiger Lotus is starting to get this fading spot on it. Lack of nutrients? Cuz it has plenty of light as it is just inches from the fixture:


The L. aromatica (It looks fantastic up top, this is just the bottom inch)


The Bacopa (this is in the back corner in front of the heater, under the output)


And now the weird algae's:
This one is white and has been growing at the base of the wood. I am wondering if I should not have put this wood in the tank (it is from Lake Powell). It was treating for 2 months and I thought it was ok, but it has a slimy coat to it and collects and puts off dirt/crap easily.


There are two in this picture. They are growing just inches from the light so I would expect it to show up faster obviously. In the center you see the stringy algae (growing on the strand of moss I have) and at the top right you can see a bright green algae growing:


1. Why did my Hygrophila all of a sudden just start dying at the base? Does it need more water changes?
2. Any idea how to grow the Blyxa? I have some money to spend on CO2 if I need to, but I was wanting to try a tank w/o for now.
3. The Algae's? What are they, how to treat them (maybe it's just more H2O changes?)
4. The bald spot growing on the Tiger Lotus and why is it green and not red now?
5. How are my dosings? Should I add sometime/take away something, etc.
6. If I can mix in RO water should I? Would it be helpful?
7. Do I need to add some shrimp? Maybe this will balance it out some?

Thanks so much for your help. Sorry this is so long but it is so many problems at once!
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Old 01-02-2012, 10:48 PM   #2
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Your lighting is low, and most of your plants are going to need medium light. You are dosing carbon, micros, and potassium, but you have no fish, so the plants are getting no nitrates and no phosphates. I would cut back on the excel to 3 ml max, I believe that is the correct amount, and dose the amount according to the directions for Nitrogen, Phosphate, potassium and Comprensive. I think you are going to need more light and co2 to grow all those plants.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/li...t5-t12-pc.html
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Old 01-02-2012, 11:01 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by livingword26 View Post
Your lighting is low, and most of your plants are going to need medium light. You are dosing carbon, micros, and potassium, but you have no fish, so the plants are getting no nitrates and no phosphates. I would cut back on the excel to 3 ml max, I believe that is the correct amount, and dose the amount according to the directions for Nitrogen, Phosphate, potassium and Comprensive. I think you are going to need more light and co2 to grow all those plants.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/li...t5-t12-pc.html
The light fixture I have is a Aqueon T5 Dual Lamp from PetSmart. I can go and buy another one from there. Do you think that will be enough or do I need to find a way to go more high tech with the lighting?

If I went and got a school of Tetra's (one of the fish I want), do you think that will also make a big enough difference at this point? I'm ok going and buying fish for now if it'll help.
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Old 01-02-2012, 11:13 PM   #4
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I can't say for sure if another dual t5no fixture will do what you want. If you decide to do that. I will say this. The pink colormax bulbs are very low par. replace them with the 6700k tubes. Even better, if they have 10000k tubes they put out more light than the 6700k tubes do. Don't put in fish if they are not what you want. Buy the Flourish nitrogen at least and the Phosphate if they have it. If you can't get a hold of any nitrogen, put a little plant food in, not a lot, just enough as if you were feeding your fish. But get some nitrogen

http://greenleafaquariums.com/aquarium-fertilizer.html

All I dose is KNO3, KH2PO4, Flourish Comprehensive, and a little Flourish Iron.
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:13 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by livingword26 View Post
I can't say for sure if another dual t5no fixture will do what you want. If you decide to do that. I will say this. The pink colormax bulbs are very low par. replace them with the 6700k tubes. Even better, if they have 10000k tubes they put out more light than the 6700k tubes do. Don't put in fish if they are not what you want. Buy the Flourish nitrogen at least and the Phosphate if they have it. If you can't get a hold of any nitrogen, put a little plant food in, not a lot, just enough as if you were feeding your fish. But get some nitrogen

http://greenleafaquariums.com/aquarium-fertilizer.html

All I dose is KNO3, KH2PO4, Flourish Comprehensive, and a little Flourish Iron.
Great advice. I could easily buy another T5NO and take out the colormax and put a 6700K in there that way I'd have 3x 6700K and just one colormax. But I'll definitely look at other options too.

If I put fish in it'll definitely be ones I want. I'll go to the store this week to see if they have the nitrogen or Phosphate.
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:45 AM   #6
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I have a 28 gallon tank with two Aqueon T5NO fixtures. My tank is approx 17" deep, so the lights are about 15" from the substrate. I have one fixture at the front and one at the rear with a few inches between the fixtures. I am currently using 3 ml of Excel per day, and dosing Flourish Comprehensive once a week at a dose of 2 ml.

I do a 30% waterchange weekly and lightly vacuum around the base of the plants to remove detritus. My plants are growing very well, with very little algae. I think if you added another fixture, it would improve the situation greatly.

I do have fish in my tank, two medium sized angelfish, 3 corydorus and a small bristlenose.
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:46 AM   #7
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BTW, I wanted to mention that bristlenoses will clean up that whitish slime that grows on wood.
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Old 01-03-2012, 05:52 PM   #8
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BTW, I wanted to mention that bristlenoses will clean up that whitish slime that grows on wood.
May I ask what kind of plants you are growing? Are the light demanding plants at all?
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Old 01-04-2012, 12:54 AM   #9
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In that tank I have: Amazon sword, bacopa caroliniana, ammania gracilis, ludwigia repens, pygmy chain sword, java fern "windelov", anubias coffeefolia, two crypts, hydrocotyle.
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by touch of sky View Post
In that tank I have: Amazon sword, bacopa caroliniana, ammania gracilis, ludwigia repens, pygmy chain sword, java fern "windelov", anubias coffeefolia, two crypts, hydrocotyle.
if you fail to grow java fern and ludwigia repens in the hard water then you will face more problem growing other plants. i live in UT also and i use to use the tap water, most plants did very well, Glosso, hairgrass, java fern etc. at that time i had 50g tank.

this is what i use to dose if i remember correctly:

50g tank
2x rena xp2

3ppm of Nitrate 3x week
1/4tsp of K and P during water change only
Traces (csm+b) 3x weekly

here is my 20g, using tap water, 2x65w PC, dosing seachem's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ME8A...eature=related

here is my 50g using tap water, 2x54w t5ho, EI dosing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAR7F...5&feature=plcp

co2 is most important of all nutrients for proper plant growth, both tank had very high co2 levels.

good luck
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Old 01-04-2012, 11:21 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by touch of sky View Post
In that tank I have: Amazon sword, bacopa caroliniana, ammania gracilis, ludwigia repens, pygmy chain sword, java fern "windelov", anubias coffeefolia, two crypts, hydrocotyle.
Awesome. Very familiar with those plants and a few I have grown or have in a tank right now. Good to know.
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Old 01-04-2012, 11:26 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by happi View Post
if you fail to grow java fern and ludwigia repens in the hard water then you will face more problem growing other plants. i live in UT also and i use to use the tap water, most plants did very well, Glosso, hairgrass, java fern etc. at that time i had 50g tank.

this is what i use to dose if i remember correctly:

50g tank
2x rena xp2

3ppm of Nitrate 3x week
1/4tsp of K and P during water change only
Traces (csm+b) 3x weekly

here is my 20g, using tap water, 2x65w PC, dosing seachem's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ME8A...eature=related

here is my 50g using tap water, 2x54w t5ho, EI dosing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAR7F...5&feature=plcp

co2 is most important of all nutrients for proper plant growth, both tank had very high co2 levels.

good luck
Thanks for the help. Good to see someone else from UT here that understands our water. I have Java Fern and L repens in a 10G tank together and they are doing great (no CO2). But this 29G is definitely more demanding with what I have in it and with what I want to be growing.

I haven't done a ton of research on a CO2 setup, but would you have any recommendations. I don't need to be looking for the cheapest way to go, but I don't have all the money in the world right now to buy whatever. So is there a setup you could recommend that is reasonable in price?

Great looking tanks btw.
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:35 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Studman0143 View Post
Thanks for the help. Good to see someone else from UT here that understands our water. I have Java Fern and L repens in a 10G tank together and they are doing great (no CO2). But this 29G is definitely more demanding with what I have in it and with what I want to be growing.

I haven't done a ton of research on a CO2 setup, but would you have any recommendations. I don't need to be looking for the cheapest way to go, but I don't have all the money in the world right now to buy whatever. So is there a setup you could recommend that is reasonable in price?

Great looking tanks btw.

you should invest on co2 and lights before you buy plants, if you are serious about the plant keeping hobby then get the proper co2 setup. IMO your lights are fine for right now. excel does not completely replace the co2, co2 is must if you want to grow those plants of yours. IMO you might be overdosing on some of the nutrients, that fuzzy looking algae is the first sign of overdose on Flourish. you might be low on nitrate as well. it will cost you too much money if you have to use more of the seachem product, i would recommend using EI dosing, look into it.

let me try my best to answer these.

1. Why did my Hygrophila all of a sudden just start dying at the base? Does it need more water changes?

old leaves falling off is a sign of low Nitrate, add nitrate and do at least 30%-50% water change in 1-2 weeks.

2. Any idea how to grow the Blyxa? I have some money to spend on CO2 if I need to, but I was wanting to try a tank w/o for now.

get the co2 first, Blyxa loves high Nitrate, if nitrate are low, this plant started to turn yellow from bottom and melt away slowly.

3. The Algae's? What are they, how to treat them (maybe it's just more H2O changes?)

look into the algae thread on this site.

4. The bald spot growing on the Tiger Lotus and why is it green and not red now?

imbalance of Nutrients, plant not using nutrients due to missing some other important nutrients

5. How are my dosings? Should I add sometime/take away something, etc.

you should be dosing nitrate,potassium and traces. you can also dose small amount of Phosphate.

6. If I can mix in RO water should I? Would it be helpful?

i use 100% RO in my tank now, but there is no need for it with those plants of yours, but however it would be helpful. L. aromatica did ok in my tap water, but once i started to add 50% RO, this plants started to do better.

7. Do I need to add some shrimp? Maybe this will balance it out some?
shrimps are not going to balance anything out, you can add them once you have figure out about the co2 and fertilizers. amano shrimps will eat the algae, but after looking at your picture am guessing you will need to add 100 of them, not recommending it till you fix the current problem.
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Old 01-05-2012, 03:02 AM   #14
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Not sure about your water, but my water is liquid limestone (350PPM CaCO3) and my blyxa does great. It does however demand a lot of light.
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:55 AM   #15
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Thanks for the input happi. I did buy another T5NO off of Amazon cuz I got a gift card for work. Even if it doesn't help, I'll have it for future use.

I'll also start looking into a CO2 setup. Never hurts to be using one.
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