How much should I start saving up?

[DefStatic]

$132 for substrate? $100 for a light? Are we no longer talking a nano tank?

[Geniusdudekiran]

Originally Posted by DefStatic

$132 for substrate? $100 for a light? Are we no longer talking a nano tank?

Just looked back, that was when I was planning a 45-P I think.

This thread is over a year old, not sure how or why it was ressurected lol.

[CuriousAmerican]

Originally Posted by somewhatshocked

I wish $50 per gallon was a reality. I'm more than $2,700 into my 12gal.

Let's take an imaginary 10 gallon tank.

$ 30 - 10 gallon tank (probably cheaper)
$ 20 - cover - incandescent
$ 15 - two CFL (florescents to put in the incandescent socket)
$ 20 - Petco Sand or MGOPM
$ 40 - Aquaclear 30 or equivalent
$ 50 - Aqueon Pro Heater 100 W (top end - no glass)
$ 60 - Stand or furniture
==========
$235

Plants
4 species @ $8 each roughly. Your grow the rest
Bacopa, Water Sprite, Anubia, and Java Ferm

$ 32
$ 8 Moss Ball
$ 8 Java Moss
$ 8 Water dechlorinator
$ 8 bacteria
$ 20 Food
$ 25 spare foam, carbon/purigen/bioballs
The foam is cheap. The bioballs you do not have to replace. Only the carbon or purigen. So in reality $25 is for spare carbon + form + purigen.
===========
$109

Sub total $344

$100 for the fish and you come in under $444

If you want to buy an EHEIM or high end lights, then you will pay more.

If you go for ADA aquasoil, or ADA tanks, then you will pay more.

$50 a gallon is very doable, if you are not going high tech.

You can even get low-iron glass tanks, relatively cheap.

Right now, Tropiquarian in Asbury Park is selling

a 10 gallon Deep Blue professional tank
with stand, Deep Blue filter, and T-5 flourscent cover + 100 W heater
for $100.

If you are willing to live with a glass heater, and a smaller filter, then you can go way under $50 a gallon.

[Geniusdudekiran]

Okay, if you want to go really low tech and throw aesthetics to the wind, then sure, it's easy. But the tanks that many of us would like to set up will easily run you three to four times this. It's a matter of preference.

[CuriousAmerican]

Originally Posted by Geniusdudekiran

Okay, if you want to go really low tech and throw aesthetics to the wind, then sure, it's easy. But the tanks that many of us would like to set up will easily run you three to four times this. It's a matter of preference.

I do not see the need to go ADA.

You can get low-iron tanks, aesthetically pleasing for much less.

http://aquatop.com

makes some reasonably nice low-iron glass.

ADA soil is good, but not so good that it is worth 4x the price.

I have never understood the necessity of an EHEIM on anythng under 20 gallons.

And lighting, while important on a planted tank, is not as centrally important as on a reef tank.

If you are putting that much money into a planted tank, then go reef.

Frankly, on a smaller tank ... some of the one in all sets are good.

[Couesfanatic]

I see the need to go ADA. I've seen those aquatop tanks, they are not as nice and clean looking as ADA.

An eheim 2211 is the best filter there is in its size.

What a lot of you are missing is that the price does not matter. We are concerned with aesthetics. We are willing to pay a few extra dollars to get the best. Why get a good looking/functional tank and equipment when we can have the best looking/functional tank and equipment available.

You may be ok with the all in one kits, but I despise those ugly cheap things.

Like the genius just said, it's a matter of preference. I prefer to have the nicest nano available.

If I wanted a reef I would do a reef, but I don't want a reef.

[Green_Flash]

Originally Posted by CuriousAmerican

I do not see the need to go ADA.

The only brand that comes close to ADA, is ELOS (look them up if you really want to seem some pricey stuff), so it isn't even possible to compare. Rimmed tanks are also a different matter, that is like a tube TV to a HD flat screen.

I like to reward the innovators.

Originally Posted by CuriousAmerican

ADA soil is good, but not so good that it is worth 4x the price.

What are you comparing to? You have substrate listed as $20, a 9L bag of Aquasoil is $30, you can use a 3L bag on a nano, only $14.
Sure most pay higher for shipping but not much.

Originally Posted by CuriousAmerican

If you are putting that much money into a planted tank, then go reef.

What does that have to do with anything? Why can't freshwater enthusiast's enjoy quality innovative equipment too? Why is that limited to reefers? Why do they get all the cool new toys it seems ?

Maybe it is because alot of freshwater (American) hobbyist are stuck in the mentality to buy the cheapest thing that works.

You see, once someone has been in this hobby for sometime they no longer think of their tank as just a "fish tank" anymore, they don't mind spending the money for nice equipment, display size does not matter anymore in relation to amount spent. Well at least those who are serious about this do.

Originally Posted by Couesfanatic

What a lot of you are missing is that the price does not matter. We are concerned with aesthetics. We are willing to pay a few extra dollars to get the best. Why get a good looking/functional tank and equipment when we can have the best looking/functional tank and equipment available.

You may be ok with the all in one kits, but I despise those ugly cheap things.

Ditto.

Like someone once said; "We are too poor to afford cheap things".

[Geniusdudekiran]

Originally Posted by CuriousAmerican

I do not see the need to go ADA.

You can get low-iron tanks, aesthetically pleasing for much less.

http://aquatop.com

makes some reasonably nice low-iron glass.

ADA soil is good, but not so good that it is worth 4x the price.

I have never understood the necessity of an EHEIM on anythng under 20 gallons.

And lighting, while important on a planted tank, is not as centrally important as on a reef tank.

If you are putting that much money into a planted tank, then go reef.

Frankly, on a smaller tank ... some of the one in all sets are good.

Sure, you can go with no-name rimless tanks, but the reality remains that ADA had unrivaled quality and honestly, it's sometimes about the name. Why go with American Eagle or Aeropostale when you can get Polo or J Crew?

And about the reef statement... what relevance does that hold? The type of your tank has nothing to do with the price tag, that only has to do with the quality.

Some of us are, admittedly, elititists. We're obsessed with only getting the highest quality products we can. Although some of the kits are nice (one of my first tanks was an Ebi), they're simply not the best.

That's all there is to it. Preference. There's no need to try to convert an ADA snob to become a low tech budgeted aquarist (not that there's anything wrong with that, as that's how I and many other people started), and vice-versa.

Originally Posted by Green_Flash

The only brand that comes close to ADA, is ELOS (look them up if you really want to seem some pricey stuff), so it isn't even possible to compare. Rimmed tanks are also a different matter, that is like a tube TV to a HD flat screen.

I like to reward the innovators.

What are you comparing to? You have substrate listed as $20, a 9L bag of Aquasoil is $30, you can use a 3L bag on a nano, only $14.
Sure most pay higher for shipping but not much.

What does that have to do with anything? Why can't freshwater enthusiast's enjoy quality innovative equipment too? Why is that limited to reefers? Why do they get all the cool new toys it seems ?

Maybe it is because alot of freshwater (American) hobbyist are stuck in the mentality to buy the cheapest thing that works.

You see, once someone has been in this hobby for sometime they no longer think of their tank as just a "fish tank" anymore, they don't mind spending the money for nice equipment, display size does not matter anymore in relation to amount spent. Well at least those who are serious about this do.

Ditto.

Like someone once said; "We are too poor to afford cheap things".

Agreed. Like the quote.

[DefStatic]

I guess it comes back to what you can afford and where you come from too. I have always been a middle of the road kind of guy. I don't buy the cheapest, but I also refuse in most cases to buy the most expensive. Some people throw money to the wind, some bargain hunt.

From what I know though, I don't think anyone buying the most expensive stuff for their tank setups is wasting money. In fact, my only major complaint is the ADA tanks. But do they look amazing? Sure do. I just have never seen, and probably never will, a real side by side comparison of a lot of this stuff.

Seems like reputation is king too. Everyone knows what is cheap, what is middle, and what is top of the line.

And that goes for a lot of things. Someone might build up their vehicle for speed and spend $1000 on something that may only gain them 1HP, and people would probably scratch their head at them LOL.

I considered an ADA tank I saw for sale on here. Even used it was still the same price as a Schruber Wright (sp?) or Aquatop LOL. But I would have taken it, just never heard back from the person.

[DefStatic]

Originally Posted by Geniusdudekiran

Sure, you can go with no-name rimless tanks, but the reality remains that ADA had unrivaled quality and honestly, it's sometimes about the name. Why go with American Eagle or Aeropostale when you can get Polo or J Crew?

People prob laugh at me, but I have spent a small fortune on Lacoste polos LOL. With that said, I only buy them when they are on sale. I do not think most of them are worth the $90 price tag (a few I would still have paid full price LOL) but 20% or more off, sure.

[Calmia22]

I have to disagree with a lot of people. I have a high tech 75g that I have spent just over $700.00 on. The tank and stand came used, but everything else was new. That includes two high end canister filters, and a pressurized co2 setup. If you shop around you can get exactly what you are looking for at a good price.

As for lighting: If you can hang a light then check out Aquaponics stores. I am going to be getting a new light soon for $140 for my 75g. It's a 4 bulb system with awesome reflectors, then I can sell my other light. They have 2-4 bulb systems that will fit well above a 10g and they are usually under $50 at my local shop. They are also T5 setups.

[Smitty06]

I don't think you understand the point everyone is pointing out. When you are passionate about the hobby, you want the best. For an ADA 45P, my lfs sells them for $89 so I have no problem dropping some money on a tank that nice. Simple truth is that ADA Aquasoil is the best out there right now, and it only costs twice as much as eco- complete. Sure with some of ADA's products their name raises the price some, but not like most things with big names. Comparing DBP and ADA is laughable. DBP has nice tanks but they are rimed, rimless tanks are just nice looking than a rimmed tank, so rimless has more aesthetic value. If you were to have a tank made with low iron glass locally, it would be around the same price, slightly less because the silicon job won't be as nice, and the low iron glass won't be as low iron as ADA, IME. If you want to rant on people that are worse, then go to the shrimp forum where they are paying 50 dollars a shrimp ( some even way more than that).

[bluestems]

it's the ol' form vs function debate.

Everyone needs function, but some want more artistic form. And what one considers Art is personal.

[Francis Xavier]

I'm just going to add this small tidbit in about ADA prices in regards to some items.

Some of the items, such as glassware and tools, are all handmade, and subject to extremely limited availability, even as a distributor. A lot of the specialty glassware only has a certain amount made per month, so if say we're talking about Cabochon Ruby, and if the craftsman can only make 50 Cabochon Rubies each month, then there's only going to be 50 for the whole world, including the three largest markets; Japan, China and India.

So for us in the States, on most of these items it requires a three month reservation on my part to obtain most of the glassware and tools. And we're not talking huge quantities here - we're talking 3 or 4 Cabochon Ruby's. So even in the case of cost for an item like that, we could throw as much money as we wanted at it, but it still wouldn't change that we can only get a hold of 3 or 4 at a time for the entire US.

In the end, you're talking about a very difficult item to make, to the quality it's made at, with expensive materials, expensive labor (Japanese labor for the most of the glassware, Super Jet, etc), and long time lines for a very limited world wide quantity.

You'd be surprised how many times even the seemingly simpler to make glassware, such as Pollen Glass Beetle 50, is just not available even at the source. It's not totally uncommon for there to be a good 4-5 month wait list on the most exclusive specialty items. The core of it all is, the manufacturing / crafting time is the same as it was in 2004, and demand is 10x higher than it was in 2004, with a saturated Japanese market and a rapidly expanding Chinese, Indian, Vietnamese and European market. Speaking of Cabochon Ruby, it took me two years to get one (well, mostly because I put my customers first in line), and I freakin import the stuff. 70 bucks is cheap for that when you think about it from that perspective anyway.

So in a way, I can see how elitism comes into play a little bit here. We're talking about items where there might be only 20 of them in the whole USA for an entire year, or something that 0.00000006% of the population owns.

[Geniusdudekiran]

Originally Posted by bluestems

it's the ol' form vs function debate.

Everyone needs function, but some want more artistic form. And what one considers Art is personal.

Originally Posted by Francis Xavier

I'm just going to add this small tidbit in about ADA prices in regards to some items.

Well put.

Some of the items, such as glassware and tools, are all handmade, and subject to extremely limited availability, even as a distributor. A lot of the specialty glassware only has a certain amount made per month, so if say we're talking about Cabochon Ruby, and if the craftsman can only make 50 Cabochon Rubies each month, then there's only going to be 50 for the whole world, including the three largest markets; Japan, China and India.

So for us in the States, on most of these items it requires a three month reservation on my part to obtain most of the glassware and tools. And we're not talking huge quantities here - we're talking 3 or 4 Cabochon Ruby's. So even in the case of cost for an item like that, we could throw as much money as we wanted at it, but it still wouldn't change that we can only get a hold of 3 or 4 at a time for the entire US.

In the end, you're talking about a very difficult item to make, to the quality it's made at, with expensive materials, expensive labor (Japanese labor for the most of the glassware, Super Jet, etc), and long time lines for a very limited world wide quantity.

You'd be surprised how many times even the seemingly simpler to make glassware, such as Pollen Glass Beetle 50, is just not available even at the source. It's not totally uncommon for there to be a good 4-5 month wait list on the most exclusive specialty items. The core of it all is, the manufacturing / crafting time is the same as it was in 2004, and demand is 10x higher than it was in 2004, with a saturated Japanese market and a rapidly expanding Chinese, Indian, Vietnamese and European market. Speaking of Cabochon Ruby, it took me two years to get one (well, mostly because I put my customers first in line), and I freakin import the stuff. 70 bucks is cheap for that when you think about it from that perspective anyway.

So in a way, I can see how elitism comes into play a little bit here. We're talking about items where there might be only 20 of them in the whole USA for an entire year, or something that 0.00000006% of the population owns.

Very cool insight from the internal workings of ADA.