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Old 11-05-2012, 03:23 AM   #151
DogFish
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Jasmine - Bare bottom can be done with plants and it doesn't have to look bad.

My Orandas:



At 2:20 in the video, you see the 40gl Oranda tank, Anubias planted in pots, Java fern on Driftwood, bare bottom tank.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0HAg5ffzPg

Just another option.
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Old 11-05-2012, 04:08 AM   #152
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I know, i just never liked the potted plants that much, and id be afraid that i wouldnt be able to reach a heavy plant mass with pots.
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:22 PM   #153
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Quote:
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I know, i just never liked the potted plants that much, and id be afraid that i wouldnt be able to reach a heavy plant mass with pots.
Any plant that Goldfish won't eat will do well in a pot. The worst might be you'd have to pull a pot every 6mos and thin it out. Just saying.

Of course you are the one that will be looking at it, ultimately it is what you like.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:46 PM   #154
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Hey, Dog. Nice tank/video. Hey, Jaz. If the main goal of your heavy plant mass is algae controll I strongly reccomend lots of cabomba. Cabomba is known to have a very strong alleopathic anti algae factor. I may be talking about something you already know here, but algae controll all comes down to alleopathy, though it is only the Walstad people who ever mention it. Plants don't outcompete algae for nutrients. That is impossible because alga need less than plants do, so if there is enough for plants there is enough for alge too, which is why people like Tom Barr are always telling folks not to limit nutrients to combat algae. Algae is in fact killed off by the "immune system" of a large enough mass of plants which exhibit said alleopathic response. Java fern has no alleopathic response, so I keep some in there to grow some algae for my otto cats to eat. They are usually on the Java fern. I also keep Cabomba to keep the general level of algae throughout the tank low. The ottos never land on the Cabomba. In my mind, the algae levels in my tank took a nose dive when, and only when, my cabomba reached a critical mass.
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:36 PM   #155
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Algae isn't an issue, it's the nitrates, I'm hoping with redoing the substrate level I will stop the raising/ leeching of nitrates in this tank, it can't be all coming from the fish... But I am taking thought into the potted plants.
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:58 PM   #156
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Hey, Dog. Nice tank/video..... Cabomba is known to have a very strong alleopathic anti algae factor.
Thank you!

and for "alleopathic anti algae factor".

In tanks without moss I use Hornwart. I've read it is allopathic to moss too. I'm bait concerned the goldfish will just eat it. I also like Water Lettuce I don't think it would handle the ebb & flow cycling.

I'm sure I'm dodging the algae bullet in my Goldfish tank due to the insane about of Bio-filtration from the Mattenfilter and the grow bed. I've had to dose a few times as the Orandas were not creating enough waste when they were smaller. I believe at their current size I should have a 5th one too.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:38 PM   #157
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Dog; my telescopes don't touch the hornwort. Jaz; did you mineralize the dirt? If not, it may well be leaching; if so, it is probably coming from the poo factories.
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Old 11-06-2012, 01:05 AM   #158
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Moss gets eaten, hornwort grows what I believe is bba and growth on it slows way down in this tank. Crypts are the only thing they don't eat...so I'm going to get more variants this te around now that I know what works.

The soil was not mineralized, it has been in the tank for over a year or so, so it is now. The soil is shifting up through the sand layer, probably from me planting new plants multiple times. That's what I think is causing the high nitrates.
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:19 AM   #159
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Hmm... There is something else you could do. Though people would think you're nuts. I keep my tank at 86 degrees. WHAT?!?!?! 86 degrees?!?!?! Yes, 86 degrees. Yes, my goldfish tank. I don't often mention it because people don't understand. The fish love the temperature and I believe the fish are healthier than they are at 76 degrees, but that is not the reason I do it. I do it because nitrifying bacteria (all of them) are 100% proven to perform their duties much much better at this temperature. So you get lower nitrates even though you have more waste production. Goldfish immune response and digestion is known to be better at this temperature too. My only warning would be that you would not want to do it in a tank with a lot of excess waste or low oxygen. Not that I would ever recommend having those things in any case. Call me crazy, but I think the common idea of a good temperature for a goldfish tank is plain wrong. If my fish all loose their color one day I will, however, retract this statement.
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:49 AM   #160
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Get rid of the substrate and you can rearrange your tank everyday.
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:55 AM   #161
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Oh wait. You don't get lower nitrates at higher temps... You get faster conversion to nitrate. My bad.
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:57 AM   #162
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More crypts is a good way to go. Your cabomba is only having algae issues because there is not enough of it. Get enough plant mass in there and your algae will dissappear along with your nitrates. Though I hear bba is a bugger. better squirt some excell right on that stuff.
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Old 11-06-2012, 04:03 AM   #163
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It seems like there is too much N in a tank until there is enough plant mass then there is not enough N. It is like it is never a good idea to try to have just enough of anything good. Like you should have a surplus of everything good. Avoid a balancing act on the edge of enough. Now that my rich substrate is gone I suspect I will have to start dosing something. Perhaps dogfish has some advice. He keeps goldfish with plants in a barebottom. You there dog? Whadda ya say? A little flourish once a week?
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Old 11-06-2012, 12:20 PM   #164
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86 degrees, interesting approach. How long have your current Goldies live at that temp?

Mine are kept at 22C (71.6F).
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Old 11-06-2012, 01:15 PM   #165
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Yes, crypts are the way to go for my goldfish....I don't know how much oxygen is in the tank...but I do keep my tank at 75.

The only plants that grow the bba, are my anubias and the hornwort, it really slow growing on the anubias, and my fish are eating the anubias so I'm not so worried. I do with I had better luck with the hornwort though...i haven't tried cabomba in any of my tanks, I should get some and see. I'd love floating plants, but my Goldie's eat everything =]
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