Toxic Ten

[DogFish]

Originally Posted by LAKE

I have been wondering about alternative substrate sources (never even considered poo), specifically mixing sources that could eliminate or reduce the need for chemical fertilizer additives.

... Cat poo is not appropriate. .....

Any wisdom you could share for considering non poo alternatives ...

Thank you for the complemts and support!

Any natural alternative will need to be broken down before the elements can be used by the plants. Poop is the mammal sourced version of compost. So I would offer to keep the whole thought process on a very simple level. Fresh raw materials can be broken down in an animals gut, a compost pile or in the substrate. The farther along the process the less ammonia there will be as a byproduct.

The bottom of a aging compost pile is not very offensive at all compared to the top. Visit a stable Pile of hours manure that have been in the Sun for a few months are dry, dusty and have little oder.

There are resources on the Web that will give you break downs of Animal waste.

The if the amount of decomposition byproducts stay in balance with Plant need and Bio-filtration, I believe one can be successful. I have no empirical data, yet I feel this tank does tend to prove out my theory.

I'm curious as to why you feel Cat poop is not appropriate?

The naysayers of the world can't accept ideas that challenge the norm and few will ever admit that you were right. Inspiring others makes it worth the effort!

[LAKE]

Yes, I am with you on your theory before empirical data. Just a little extra cautious about my aquariums.

Sorry, MY cats poo is inappropriate. They are indoor cats but their number one job seems to be protecting the home from the giant invading critters that came when our lovely landlord spread 8-10,000 lbs of dead landfill soil. (e.g. crickets over 4", a block away they are 1/2"). I don't even know what most of these weird critters are or what they are feeding on, we have lost our shed and a section of yard to the spiders now. The bugs are also chemical tolerant. It's not getting in my aquariums. Someone else may have experience with cat poo, mine seems an excessive risk.

How do you feel about Garden Center bagged manure? Properly cooked of course.

[DogFish]

I can not see a problem using bagged manure. I build my "dirt" by eye & educated guess. I'm sorry I can not tell you what amount of manure to use. Most of the bagged stuff has already along the way to being decomposed. I've used bagged manure over the years for my potted plants and I found there to be little oder in those bags.

The oder we find offensive is the result of the bacterial breakdown of the materiel

Larcat uses a lot of Worm Casings that he added to MTS that I built for him. There isn't much oder in that product. I'm sure Devin (Larcat) would be happy to offer his thoughts.

While it looked like a lot of Rottweiler Poop on that shovel, it might have less than 5% of the total mix. I think the Coffee grounds were equally as potent though less in volume.

I think equally important is the balance of the plants, filter, fish, light. I think the problems come when we lose track of the big picture and focus on the parts.

I do have two other "alternative" substrate tanks planned. I like that term you used. I will measure the ingredients in the future.

[LAKE]

Thanks for the help. Measurments are unnecessary. Much like you, I observe the balance and educate myself about the ingredients before use. I got my scholarship by working as a Baker with very inspiring mentors.

Keep on inspiring and innovating!

[DogFish]

I'll be interested in seeing your efforts. Please let me know when you get your tank going. If I can help in anyway feel free to PM.

[DogFish]

Just found a great resource link for Alternative Substrate Supplements.

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/dou...orgfertval.pdf

[DogFish]

DAY 236

Pulled out 5 bigger and 4 smaller Staurogyne 'Bihar' that were growing into the front glass. They were potted and move out to the Whiskey Barrel pond.

Planted some Blyxa japonica babies that came from the pond.

Moved a the Anubias a little higher to the top, creating a hiding space behind the lava rock base. The female Rams are challenging each other so with less plant cover I wanted to create a hiding spot. The aggression is pretty even right now. If there's and injury or a clear winner I'll pull the #2 girl out.

Since they didn't spawn in the last 20days, I've turned the heat back down to 80. For now I'll just let nature happen.

[150EH]

It's looking good *camera* and wow 80 degrees, I keep mine at 75 mainly to keep the mosses happy but I get worried when the take gets up to 80 - 82 in the summer but so far this year it hasn't happened and from what you keep your temps at and I've seen a few other members at 82 to 85, I guess it's no big deal.

[DogFish]

Thanks!

I feel bad that the crummy pics don't do the tank justice...but, not bad enough to buy a new camera

It's in an unfinished basement (no a/c) and I don't have the heater on and up until today 80 was the lowest I got it to. I did a w/c today and got it to hold 78 for now.

We're running record heat this summer hit 100+ twice last week.

I had it up higher to kick in spawning. They weren't ready. I like to keep my tanks more in the 72-76 range. I do think prolonged higher temps probably aren't a good idea. That doesn't happen in nature. Temps fluctuate even in the topics. The water in the Amazon River isn't 84 degrees 30" under the surface. Anyone that's ever went swimming in a lake or river can testify.

[xenxes]

I <3 POO AND WORMS! YAY!

Why buy fert when you can compost your own eh?

[diwu13]

Originally Posted by xenxes

I <3 POO AND WORMS! YAY!

Why buy fert when you can compost your own eh?

Tank 10, try using your own :P

[DogFish]

DAY 237


I sold off 12 of the Staurogyne 'Bihar' and moved the remaining 4 plants out to the Whiskey Barrel pond. I found this in the middle of Staurogyne 'Bihar'. It's either C. Walkeri-Lutea or C. Wendtii 'Green Gecko'? It must have come from a pc of Rhizome that had broken off from last spring or the Crypt Fairy planted it??

It's also going outside for the rest of the summer. I've got a few trade plants on the way for the rescape. Pics to follow.

Love the Surprise Free Crypt!!!



As far as the project, I pulled the S. Bihar out, along with digging the long Najas Grass roots out, no gas issues no apocalyptic doom.

[keithy]

Dogfish,

I like this journal as it is different than the others. I have to be honest with you that I will probably not try what you did, but more important are the new things that you tried, may come in handy for somebody that may be studying substrate for aquarium use. I salute you dude!

**This journal is hilarious, yet educational

[diwu13]

Whoa dogfish?!?! New camera :d?

[driftwoodhunter]

Hey, I didn't even pay attention to that! lol