ammania gracilis help needed please

[observant_imp]

I'm having a terrible time with this plant. I got some last fall and it grew into a pretty, little orange plant in the tank it was in. I moved it to my large tank and the plant just exploded--it became huge, and turned a gorgeous hot pinky orange to boot! Then, after a few months, it started heading down hill. The leaves are much smaller, the new growth is crumpled looking, and the old leaves don't look so hot either.

I found some info at the krib: one reference to it being a great indicator plant (but didn't state what it indicated), and another reference that said it didn't do well in proximity with alternanthera reineckii (but someone said they'd only had the problem in small tank and it was fine in a big one).

I did move some alternanthera reineckii into the tank (but away from the ammania a few months back). I also found that the bucket I was using for water changes held more water than I thought, which means I've been under dosing on RO right and letting my water get too soft (now corrected and other plants have recovered).

I really love this plant when it looks good and desperately need help in getting it healthy again. I've switched to Tom Barr's EI method of dosing (and my plants are loving it), so I'm guessing my problem is related to either gh/kh or trace problems. The plant has looked it's best and worst in the same tank, and it headed down hill before I switched to EI.

I can't find as much info on this plant as I'd like, so I'd be grateful for any info/advice anyone has to offer.

Thanks,

[Wö£fëñxXx]

Sorry Cheryl, I can not help with you're plant I have never had it, but I did want to comment on you're tank's in you're sig...WOW,, looks very good!

[observant_imp]

Thanks Craig. My shift from low light to high light is coming along nicely thanks to the pooled knowledge of the board. I'll be happy to send you some if I ever get it straightened out.

In rereading, I see I spent a lot of energy whining and forgot my current specs.

nitrate kept between 10-20
phosphate kept between 1-2
temp 84
kh maintaine between 3 and 5
gh recently increased to 5 (it was down to around 3)
ph varies between 6.4 and 6.8
DIY CO2 (don't suggest pressurized--my bp still goes up when I think about the dupla kit I had in the early 90s)
lighting just under 5 wpg PC (note: I replaced a 60 watts of twin tube tritons with 192 watts of pc in january)

[Gill Man]

Your specs look good, but in referencing Kasselmann's book, Aquatic Plants, she also states it is an indicator plant, for lighting and substrate nutrition. The leaves at the bottom turn black when the plant doesn't get enought light at the bottom and the substrate should be supplemented for good growth. Apparently, it is a root feeder, which would explain why it was good for a few months then declined. The thing about all these fancy substrates is that they wear out especially when you get a good root feeding plant in there. I have the same problem with mine, so now I know as well. So what's a good root tab that contains everything?

[rayhwong]

Im having the same problem with my ammania too. I thought it was calcium deficiency but none of the other plants are exhibiting the same problem and my GH is 9-10. I dosed calcium and it had no change either.
I will try putting some jobes plant sticks and flourish tabs below it.

[Overfloater]

I wouldn't say this plant root feeds at all, it's just like any other stem. I have it growing in PFS, with high light, CO2, and lots of ferts. It grows great and is pinkish orange. You must be missing a nutrient.

[Gill Man]

Still, it doesn't get those conspicuous white "roots" at the leaf nodes like other stem plants, so it seems plausible that this could be the case. I added an errant root tab, I had rolling around in a drawer, to the center of my Ammania grouping as my FloraBase substrate is spent and and it's lackluster growth is far from robust, even with all the nutrients I add to the tank, and I mean ALL.

[Overfloater]

Originally Posted by Gill Man

Still, it doesn't get those conspicuous white "roots" at the leaf nodes like other stem plants, so it seems plausible that this could be the case. I added an errant root tab, I had rolling around in a drawer, to the center of my Ammania grouping as my FloraBase substrate is spent and and it's lackluster growth is far from robust, even with all the nutrients I add to the tank, and I mean ALL.

Mine has plenty of aerial roots. I don't add any substrate ferts and as I mentioned it is growing in PFS which provided no nutrients at all. Maybe you you will have good luck with the substrate fertilization.

[Gill Man]

Mine have always been wierd and are always one scoop away from being yanked and flushed, but they look so "gracilis" when they grow well...I'm giving them one last chance!

[observant_imp]

Bob--I've seen pics of yours and it's beautiful! Can you share your water parameters (hard/soft/ph/etc)? I can't figure out why mine was doing so well and then turned to crud. If I have something to compare to, maybe I can figure out what's missing.

Could those of you having trouble also share your specs? Maybe we can see a pattern that will help us figure this one out. I hate to trash this plant--it's so nice when it looks good.

[Ibn]

This plant is a hog in regards to nutrients, IME. I have some with A. reineckii and have the opposite problem. The A. reineckii hasn't grown much (still short and compact), while this plant has hit the surface of the tank (with a very thick stem). I was running the tank lean for awhile and noticed the change in coloration with this plant. As soon as I started dosing heavily again, it has grown like a weed and keeps the nice coloration (especially the micros). BTW, this is all done w/out root tabs.

[Overfloater]

Originally Posted by observant_imp

Bob--I've seen pics of yours and it's beautiful! Can you share your water parameters (hard/soft/ph/etc)? I can't figure out why mine was doing so well and then turned to crud. If I have something to compare to, maybe I can figure out what's missing.

Thanks. A compliment for me is a complement for the hobby. I don't think mine is that special but it seems to be growing well. Last I checked I was looking at kH 8, gH 8, pH 6.6, and 4WPG via shoplights. I have been adding KNO3, Flourish and Flourish Fe for the last few months. I started skipping the PO4 and haven't had any problems yet.

It's been growing well for a few months now and I have to lop off about 4" from the bottom every week. It's going to be moving to a new 75G very soon so I'm hoping the extra height will allow me to go a few weeks between trimmings. I love the plant and it's color is very nice and unique, however, the leaves are quite large. They are pretty thin at about 1/2" but they are very long at 4-5". They may even get bigger if I would stop lopping them off every week..

[shalu]

I had that twisted/curled leaf problem for a while. It got corrected recently(a few weeks) and growing very well, too well, too fast for my taste(I started dosing Ca a few months ago). It took so long to recover that I am hesitant to say it is definitely Ca dosing. Possibly a recent change in tap water pushed it over the limit, my gh is now even higher than before, 17 after Ca addition. Along the same line, my ammania senegalensis is recovering as well from the same problem. Never used any root tab at any time. So far I have always been able to fix my plant problem through water colunm dosing, shucks, shouldn't have said that, I might jinx it.

[FMZ]

Is this the plant you guys are talking about in the background??? If so I have it and its not doing so well either

[lowcoaster]

I have had some problems in my holding tanks with A. gracilis. I recently changed the stock to another tank---it is right next to Alt. reineckii "Cardinalis". The tank is a 33 XL (shallow) with 4 watts per gallon. It is now doing fine. Not growing very quickly (which I am happy about), but nice color and tight leaves.