Bio-film and chemical transfer ?
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > Specific Aspects of a Planted Tank > DIY


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-14-2015, 03:42 PM   #1
Raymond S.
Planted Tank Guru
 
Raymond S.'s Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Hot Springs Ar. 71901
Posts: 3,761
Default

Bio-film and chemical transfer ?


Does the normal bio-film, once it gets this covering anything in a tank, stop the release of chemicals from whatever it's on into the tank ?
I want to use concrete without any sealer on it in my tank for a coating of "Great Stuff" so it will look more like rock and perhaps have a surface that is easier for algae to cling to.
Concrete has limestone in it. This may increase the PH if left unsealed ?
Thoughts, experience on this...
__________________
The shortest distance between any two points is a straight line...in the opposite direction...
Raymond S. is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-14-2015, 05:59 PM   #2
Sevamortner
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Chicago
Posts: 24
Default

I don't have any experience with cement in a tank. Tho I do work with concrete semi often, I would likely use an acrylic fortifier with my mix and soak the final product in distilled water for a good month or so doing a handful of water changes to remove the calcium deposits and such. You could monitor to water and note changes in ph to see if a difference has been made over the soaking period.
Sevamortner is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-14-2015, 07:11 PM   #3
Raymond S.
Planted Tank Guru
 
Raymond S.'s Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Hot Springs Ar. 71901
Posts: 3,761
Default

I'm thinking that it will raise it at first but then go back down after the tank gets more mature. I'm trying to avoid any added stuff to the cement as I have yet to see one that doesn't have a glare from it/w the added sealer etc. Makes the cement look plastic or plastic coated.
All those on here who have these cement backgrounds should know if it will leach something to raise the PH or not. But likely most have it coated.
__________________
The shortest distance between any two points is a straight line...in the opposite direction...
Raymond S. is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-14-2015, 09:50 PM   #4
greaser84
Wannabe Guru
 
greaser84's Avatar
 
PTrader: (10/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: NC
Posts: 1,251
Default

Concrete will effect the water chemistry for awhile, which is why most people will cure the concrete before using it. I've made a concrete background years ago and cured it for a month or so (don't remember exactly) after the curing process I had no issues with water parameters. I covered styrofoam with concrete mix. No sealer used. Make your rock pile, do water changes regularly until the parameters are stable, then add your livestock. As far as the biofilm it won't act as a sealant.
__________________
greaser84 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-15-2015, 12:00 AM   #5
mistergreen
No more Bow ties
 
mistergreen's Avatar
 
PTrader: (13/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 14,601
Default

I bet you can speed up concrete curing by soaking it in vinegar & water. When the pH is stable, it's cured.
mistergreen is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-15-2015, 12:04 AM   #6
Okedokey
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Okedokey's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 444
Default

This may help your research a little more http://www.publish.csiro.au/paper/MF10296
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betta132 View Post
Nope, shrimp mate fast. You just have a small shrimp standing on a big shrimp.
1200 x 600 x 600 CADE Planted Tank (115G) | 900 x 450 x 450 Cichlid Tank (50G) | Eheim Professionel 3 + 2213 + 2215 + 2217 + Skimmer (350) | Eheim UV 800 + Pump head + Chiller | 3 x Kessil A360WE LED + Spectral Controller | Pressurised CO2 | DIY Fertz + 2 x Jabeo DP-4 | CAL AQUA LABSí Black Earth and Green Base Substrates + Root tabs
Okedokey is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-15-2015, 04:46 AM   #7
Raymond S.
Planted Tank Guru
 
Raymond S.'s Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Hot Springs Ar. 71901
Posts: 3,761
Default

Appreciate these responses guys. Getting closer to starting this project.
Been collecting needed "things" for a while. Like a new stand for this tank.
The more info I get the less likely for me to goof it up.
__________________
The shortest distance between any two points is a straight line...in the opposite direction...
Raymond S. is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-18-2015, 12:38 AM   #8
lochaber
Planted Tank Guru
 
lochaber's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 2,268
Default

why not skip the concrete and just go with an epoxy/sand mix? you don't have to worry about pH issues, and it's going to be stronger then a thin layer of concrete. I've done a few/couple paludariums like this, and thought it turned out pretty well.
lochaber is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-18-2015, 02:56 AM   #9
mistergreen
No more Bow ties
 
mistergreen's Avatar
 
PTrader: (13/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 14,601
Default

I wonder if polymer grout would work.
mistergreen is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-18-2015, 02:44 PM   #10
Raymond S.
Planted Tank Guru
 
Raymond S.'s Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Hot Springs Ar. 71901
Posts: 3,761
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lochaber View Post
why not skip the concrete and just go with an epoxy/sand mix? you don't have to worry about pH issues, and it's going to be stronger then a thin layer of concrete. I've done a few/couple paludariums like this, and thought it turned out pretty well.
Because basically you need to use rock if you want it to look like rock ?
I have a site bookmarked that has a couple dozen fake rock backgrounds
and if you look from across the room at them it doesn't look bad.
But that sealer on them makes it look like plastic to me.
Perhaps I just have not seen the right one yet.
But I can see the fiberglass being much stronger, no doubt.
Do you have to use the mat thing or cloth I think it's also called
or can you just use the jell part and maybe mix some sand into it ?
__________________
The shortest distance between any two points is a straight line...in the opposite direction...
Raymond S. is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-18-2015, 11:40 PM   #11
lochaber
Planted Tank Guru
 
lochaber's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 2,268
Default

When I've made backgrounds/paludariums before, i just straight up mixed sand into a cup of epoxy, and then stuck it on the styrofoam. I thought it looked sufficiently rock-like, but it is somewhat glossy from the epoxy. On the above-water portions, I would sprinkly sand over the epoxy, and then brush off/vacuum off the excess once the epoxy cured. I didn't bother with the underwater portions, because it wasn't really noticeable.

I've heard of people using chinchilla dust for this, but I haven't tried that myself, I just used whatever sand I was mixing in with it to begin with.

If you were really concerned about structural strength, you could use fiberglass mats, or even just old rags or paper or something, but just the epoxy/sand mix is fairly strong itself.
lochaber is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-19-2015, 12:23 AM   #12
Raymond S.
Planted Tank Guru
 
Raymond S.'s Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Hot Springs Ar. 71901
Posts: 3,761
Default

I've heard of cement pealing off after a year or so(quicker if not put on well) and
I do tend to keep tanks over that amount of time, but I doubt strength is that important.
If it will stick well to the "Great Stuff" is more important here I think.
I put shale rock on one wall before and apparently I didn't clean the dirt off a couple of pieces all that well because a couple of the pieces fell off later and now there is a couple of places, small though they are, which have a blob of silicone showing in the tank.
I hope this comes out better. It's a lot of work to just remove it after a couple of months
have passed since you set up the tank. Filter pick up tubes, heaters etc are not that great when visible in the tank. I'm just trying to be creative about hiding them
along/w decorating a bit.
__________________
The shortest distance between any two points is a straight line...in the opposite direction...
Raymond S. is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012