I'm looking at the ingredients in Flourish comp...

blackphantom · 08-02-2011, 09:14 PM

...and wondering if I really need to pay for most of the stuff in the bottle?

N, P, K I dose via dry chemicals. Ca and Mg...my tap water is liquid rock. Then there's a bunch of metals. Are any of these gonna be limiting besides maybe iron? Seems like there should be enough of stuff like copper in my tap water. The only thing I'm wondering about is sulfur...is there a reason there's so much of it?

So I'm wondering if I can just use an iron or iron/potassium supplement, which would allow me to add greater quantities of iron and hopefully be cheaper.

The tank in question is "medium" tech, 2 wpg excel only.

Booger · 08-02-2011, 09:23 PM

Conventional wisdom says that's a bad idea, but I say give it a shot. Take photos as you go.

I suspect your plants will begin to slowly decline, but I think it might be an interesting experiment. If it doesn't work out, at least you'll have a better eye for spotting nutrient deficiencies.

ubr0ke · 08-02-2011, 09:31 PM

switch from flourish to csm+b...then ur using all dry ferts...

micro's are essential to plant health..boron, chlorine, copper, maganese, etc...they all play a role

**kevmo911** · 08-02-2011, 09:33 PM

^+1

It's all those metals that make up the trace mix. And yes, they're necessary. And I agree that going with CSM+B or Miller Microplex would be a better (cheaper) bet.

blackphantom · 08-02-2011, 11:49 PM

Does anyone know off hand how much CSM+B is equivalent to a bottle of Flourish?

Edit: a 250 ml bottle, if it comes in different sizes.

**kevmo911** · 08-03-2011, 12:04 AM

Well, for a 20-40g tank, standard EI dosing suggests 1/16 tsp 3x per week. So just under 1/4 tsp per week.

Flourish suggested dosing is 1 capful (5mL) per 60g "once or twice" per week. So, assume 5mL per week for a 30g tank (what I have). That's 50 weeks worth for a 30g tank in a 250mL bottle.

CSM+B is generally sold in 1/2 pound quantities. There are about 48 teaspoons in a 1/2 pound. At 3/16 tsp per week, there are approximately 256 weeks worth of CSM+B in a 1/2 bag.

Again, that's for 20-40g dosing. So 1 year for a 250mL bottle of Flourish, and 5 years in a 1/2 lb bag of CSM+B. If I did my math right.

blackphantom · 08-04-2011, 03:27 AM

Hmm CSM+B would definitely be a lot cheaper. I think I'll switch. I think I shouldn't do anything too experimental at this point, I have too good of a history of killing plants.

**Jeffww** · 08-06-2011, 08:07 PM

Flourish dosing charts are very conservative. Expect a bag of csm to last several years on medium to small tanks. I do suggest miller's microplex though. It's more expensive but much more complete than csm+b. It has more iron and maganese in it.

Sharkfood · 08-06-2011, 08:24 PM

There isn't enough Ca or Mg in that product to have any real effect on your water hardness. It's already diluted and the dosing guidelines are pretty light also.

I imagine they are assuming their buyers will have low light, low tech tanks.

08-02-2011, 09:14 PM	#1
blackphantom Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: US Posts: 9	I'm looking at the ingredients in Flourish comp... ...and wondering if I really need to pay for most of the stuff in the bottle? N, P, K I dose via dry chemicals. Ca and Mg...my tap water is liquid rock. Then there's a bunch of metals. Are any of these gonna be limiting besides maybe iron? Seems like there should be enough of stuff like copper in my tap water. The only thing I'm wondering about is sulfur...is there a reason there's so much of it? So I'm wondering if I can just use an iron or iron/potassium supplement, which would allow me to add greater quantities of iron and hopefully be cheaper. The tank in question is "medium" tech, 2 wpg excel only.

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08-02-2011, 09:23 PM	#2
Booger Planted Tank Enthusiast (View User Tanks) PTrader: (26/100%) Join Date: May 2004 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 574	Conventional wisdom says that's a bad idea, but I say give it a shot. Take photos as you go. I suspect your plants will begin to slowly decline, but I think it might be an interesting experiment. If it doesn't work out, at least you'll have a better eye for spotting nutrient deficiencies.

08-02-2011, 09:31 PM	#3
ubr0ke Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 81	switch from flourish to csm+b...then ur using all dry ferts... micro's are essential to plant health..boron, chlorine, copper, maganese, etc...they all play a role

08-02-2011, 09:33 PM	#4
kevmo911 Planted Tank Guru (View User Tanks) PTrader: (32/100%) Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 3,750	^+1 It's all those metals that make up the trace mix. And yes, they're necessary. And I agree that going with CSM+B or Miller Microplex would be a better (cheaper) bet.

08-02-2011, 11:49 PM	#5
blackphantom Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: US Posts: 9	Does anyone know off hand how much CSM+B is equivalent to a bottle of Flourish? Edit: a 250 ml bottle, if it comes in different sizes.

08-03-2011, 12:04 AM	#6
kevmo911 Planted Tank Guru (View User Tanks) PTrader: (32/100%) Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 3,750	Well, for a 20-40g tank, standard EI dosing suggests 1/16 tsp 3x per week. So just under 1/4 tsp per week. Flourish suggested dosing is 1 capful (5mL) per 60g "once or twice" per week. So, assume 5mL per week for a 30g tank (what I have). That's 50 weeks worth for a 30g tank in a 250mL bottle. CSM+B is generally sold in 1/2 pound quantities. There are about 48 teaspoons in a 1/2 pound. At 3/16 tsp per week, there are approximately 256 weeks worth of CSM+B in a 1/2 bag. Again, that's for 20-40g dosing. So 1 year for a 250mL bottle of Flourish, and 5 years in a 1/2 lb bag of CSM+B. If I did my math right.

08-04-2011, 03:27 AM	#7
blackphantom Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: US Posts: 9	Hmm CSM+B would definitely be a lot cheaper. I think I'll switch. I think I shouldn't do anything too experimental at this point, I have too good of a history of killing plants.

08-06-2011, 08:07 PM	#8
Jeffww Microsynodontis Lover (View User Tanks) PTrader: (9/100%) Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Houston Posts: 2,081	Flourish dosing charts are very conservative. Expect a bag of csm to last several years on medium to small tanks. I do suggest miller's microplex though. It's more expensive but much more complete than csm+b. It has more iron and maganese in it.

08-06-2011, 08:24 PM	#9
Sharkfood Planted Tank Guru (View User Tanks) PTrader: (2/100%) Join Date: May 2010 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Posts: 2,536	There isn't enough Ca or Mg in that product to have any real effect on your water hardness. It's already diluted and the dosing guidelines are pretty light also. I imagine they are assuming their buyers will have low light, low tech tanks.