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Old 05-26-2011, 12:41 AM   #31
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Naw, I'd give you an A- hehe

I'm hard teach, but grade easy. If you survive the first few weeks
Got to put the fear of poor grades(the great motivator) in new students. They are there to learn and make mistakes, not suffer grade wise if they work hard.

The co factor aspect and mobility are good ideas and relevant, all the Mg is not in the Chl a, but the same can be said for N. I'm not aware of anyone that has writtren abiout Mg limitation or tried this critically.

That is interestinjg in and of itself.

I managed to induce Mg limitation but it was long ago, I have been interested in toxic and inhibiting levels at the other end mostly.
NPK, Fe etc.........I've done those nice and low..........but not Ca++ and Mg++ at the low end limiting.

These tend to be tough without some RO and serious modified dosing and decent controls prior. Even my DI/RO like tap has too much to run strong limitations. We did some in SF in the 1990's. But not individual nutrients.

So it's a knowledge gap.

No one really knows if the red can be popped out using Mg limitation.
Might be easy.
Thank you, Sir! Getting an A- in your course has left my brain awash in dopamine and serotonin. As with the ending of many Zen koans, "...and so the young man was enlightened." I will count this moment as the first completed footstep in my journey.

I'll have to think about an experiment and do more reading. I may pop up again about this. It may not be soon, but the seed has been planted. If someone beats me to it, well it's not a competition.

I did just have a thought about Mg toxicity. Maybe we're unlikely to see it in our tanks because the amount you'd need to be toxic would put you closer to full strength seawater which no one would add to their tanks intentionally? Brackish, perhaps? Again, this will require more long term noodling. Just a thought. I don't know why the toxicity angle fascinates me so. Must be the novelty of the thought itself or at least in my noggin anyway .
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Old 05-26-2011, 12:49 AM   #32
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Well, toxicity testing in general is interesting to me.

Given I was/am one of the few stupid enough to test such stuff without fear.........I am able to learn more than the fear and myth crowd.

This applied to algae.
This applied to plants
This applied to fish
This applied more recently to Cherry shrimp, and then CRS mid/low grades, then high grades.
This applied to less light, how low can you go?

I am honest in my abject ignorance, and then going about trying to answer some of these questions. Many seem to think they know a lot....but really just repeat.

Seek questions, not answers.

We really do not know a whole lot about color, we know a few things based on some observations, but they seem conflicting to me. Still, we can hypothesize and try and rule things out, and narrow our choices down.
I do not think there is strong evidence that low NO3 alone, has much impact on nice red color.

I do not think L aromatica is a good test case though. A reineckii, L pantanal, R macrandra, a few of the Rotala's, Ammannia etc.

These seem better.

I think you'd really have to dose a lot of MgSO4 to get to the toxicity ranges.
We just do not commonly see it. Someone sees a little correlation and thinks there is something to it maybe.........perhaps......and says it's just speculation and 3-4 people later it's become fact
K+ upper ranges and some of these other nutrients are going to behave more like Salt stress models rather than "toxicity" like with something like metals like Copper or Zinc, K+ and PO4 will fall into this group.
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Old 05-30-2011, 12:08 PM   #33
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Come on, all these pics show easy cheesy sorts of red plants. Some plants naturally red or have a reddish hue. It doesn't necessarily mean they're deficient in any particular nutrient.

Try some of these out (rotala macrandra 'Japan' and rotala 'sunset') with 40 ppm nitrate and post pictures:





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Old 05-30-2011, 02:59 PM   #34
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Ooh! What's the one in the last photo?

Also, yes, you're right. Just happy, healthy red plants responding to light, as it should be.
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Old 05-30-2011, 05:24 PM   #35
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Ooh! What's the one in the last photo?

Also, yes, you're right. Just happy, healthy red plants responding to light, as it should be.
rotala "sunset". By far the most PITA plant I've ever owned be it aquarium or terrestrial. You definitely need a low pH and a more or less stable gH to keep it happy. Iron tabs also help a lot.
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Old 05-30-2011, 06:02 PM   #36
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Here's some red in a former scape of mine with full on EI dosing and 2x54 T5HO on a 75 gallon.

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Old 05-30-2011, 08:23 PM   #37
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@jeff5614 - awesome color! what bulbs were you using? were you using reflectors?

some of my reds, light was a bit crazy - 8x54w t5's, full ei..

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Old 05-30-2011, 08:58 PM   #38
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@jeff5614 - awesome color! what bulbs were you using? were you using reflectors?

some of my reds, light was a bit crazy - 8x54w t5's, full ei..

Thanks. I was using a 2x54 Hagen Glo fixture with one Giesemann Midday and one Aquaflora.
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Old 05-30-2011, 09:30 PM   #39
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How long has the Blyxa been in there under those lights?
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Old 05-30-2011, 10:38 PM   #40
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How long has the Blyxa been in there under those lights?
Gee, hard to say exactly but for months if not a couple of years. Long enough to have been thinned out several times. It's till perking right along under 1x54 in my current scape altough growth is slower.
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Old 05-30-2011, 11:37 PM   #41
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I will contribute. Full on EI dosing. Actually, dosing a little more with this tank....









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Old 05-30-2011, 11:40 PM   #42
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Gee, hard to say exactly but for months if not a couple of years. Long enough to have been thinned out several times. It's till perking right along under 1x54 in my current scape altough growth is slower.
So in the pic, with the 2x54 they still weren't getting color?
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Old 05-31-2011, 12:25 AM   #43
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So in the pic, with the 2x54 they still weren't getting color?
The blyxa had a bronze tinge to it that doesn't show up in the pics. They've gotten greener with lower light.
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Old 05-31-2011, 01:07 AM   #44
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The blyxa had a bronze tinge to it that doesn't show up in the pics. They've gotten greener with lower light.
That's what I thought. So the higher light did bring the color.
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Old 05-31-2011, 02:00 AM   #45
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That's what I thought. So the higher light did bring the color.
Possibly, could also just be the color from the Aquaflora. The reds are lot more apparent using an Aquaflora in the mix than with two Middays.
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