Complete Leak Check, CO2 pressurized system - Page 2
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > Specific Aspects of a Planted Tank > Equipment


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-21-2011, 05:47 AM   #16
btimmer92
Wannabe Guru
 
btimmer92's Avatar
 
PTrader: (67/99%)
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 1,227
Default

You would still need to test the seats and diaphragms.

After you close the tank valve, just turn the knob real quickly and close it again to see if it regulates the pressure.

Then set it at about 30psi, and hold your thumb strongly against the output and see if the LP chamber is leaking.

Then, if it is a dual stage, set the psi to about 5, and let all the air empty out of the regulator. This will act as a mini end-of-tank-dump. If the working pressure stays at exactly 5psi until it empties, both seats and diaphragms are indeed working.

A cheap needle valve or even a welding on-off valve would greatly help this experiment. And usually, a reg will come with the on-off valve.
__________________
-Bill



btimmer92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 09-21-2011, 05:55 AM   #17
bsmith
Planted Tank Guru
 
bsmith's Avatar
 
PTrader: (278/99%)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: St.Louis, MO
Posts: 9,059
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettatail View Post
CO2 is toxic in higher concentrations: 1% (10,000 ppm) will make some people feel drowsy.[7] Concentrations of 7% to 10% cause dizziness, headache, visual and hearing dysfunction, and unconsciousness within a few minutes to an hour

---make sure your house ventilation is good, or your system is completely bullet proof.


This leak check is also a function check for Double stage Regulator.
(spray soap water test only for the reachable connection ports, if leaking is inside the regulator, soap water test is useless.
also, someone suggest dipping the whole system in water to test leak, don't even think about it, it is suicide if solenoid is 120V, or you will ruin the solenoid.)

Step 1.
A. Regulator handle completely loose(counter clockwise).
B. Connect the regulator to the co2 tank, make sure the connection is secured.
C. Turn on the CO2 tank release handle slowly, CO2 inject into regulator, the HP gauge reading should be at 800 psi.
D. Shut the CO2 tank release handle, now the reading on the HP gauge should be 800 psi also.
E. Wait 6 hours, if the reading is the same, first stage is good, go to second step.

If the psi lower but the tank--regulator(soap water test), CGA 320 nipple--regulator(soap water test) and HP gauge--regulator(soap water test) connection ports are 100% no leak, your regulator is toasted--the leaking is inside(leaking HP gauge, punched diaphragm, diaphragm seal broken, or the poppet valve between the first stage and second stage chambers is not completely sealed.)

Step 2.
continue from step one if success, now you have 800 psi of co2 isolated in the first stage chamber.
A. needle valve open.
B. Solenoid valve power off(shut).
C. Turn the regulator handle clockwise to charge the second stage chamber, fill to the regulator default outlet maximum.
D. Turn the regulator handle counter clockwise(completely loose).
E. Release the CO2 in the first stage chamber by turning loose the regulator-Tank connection screw(make sure the co2 tank is closed before you do this).
Now you have CO2 isolated in the second stage chamber.
F. Wait for 5-10 minutes(to ease the second stage diaphragm elastic issue, psi may drop right after the regulator handle turn loose, then it will stay), record the LP gauge psi reading.
G. Wait for 6 hours, if the new psi reading is within 1/8+ difference of original reading, go to step 3

If the psi lower a lot after 6 hours, redo step 2, soap water test on every reachable connection port(LP gauge--regulator, regulator--fittings, fittings--solenoid)
if leaking found, fix it

redo step 2.
no leak, go to step 3

if still leak.
Take out the solenoid, seal the outlet port of the regulator(make sure the sealed port has no leak)
redo step 2 without the solenoid.
if no leak, solenoid valve has issue.
if leaking still, regulator toasted.(similar problems as mentioned in step one)


Step 3.
A. connect the regulator back to the co2 tank, charge both stage charmbers(turn on the co2 tank release handle then the regulator handle, outlet psi set to your desire psi).
B. Turn on the solenoid valve.
C. Turn off the needle valve, soap water test, between the ports of solenoid and the needle valve.
D. Turn on the needle valve, soap water test for rest of the hose/NPT/hose barb connections.
E. if leaking found, fix it.

leak test and regulator functional check complete.
Nice little write up. I cant imagine how many people have been frustrated/enraged when after running allover creation to swap/refill their co2 cylinder and hooking it up to find it completely empty a couple of days or hours later. I have done this more times then I like to admit and I really cannot think of any (in the whole scheme of things) not too serious issue that is more irritating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by btimmer92 View Post
Step 1: get a dual stage

lol jk
I have said this so many times its not funny. I wish everyone would just get a nice used DSR to start. The equipment forum would be much less posted in because members would very likely have quite a bit less trouble with a good used DSR than with even a brand new SSR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OverStocked View Post
If there is no leaks, it shouldn't.
100% correct.
bsmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 05:56 AM   #18
Bettatail
Planted Tank Guru
 
Bettatail's Avatar
 
PTrader: (86/98%)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,418
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by herns View Post
How do you check if a used regulator is good or bad without any fittings attach to it yet? (No solenoid, no metering valve, no brass/ stainless steel fittings, Nothing!).

This is particularly when someone buys a used regulator on e-b-a-y that has not been tested to be working or not. So, it can be returned within time period specified by the seller.

test the first chamber as tetra73 said(step one).
then use a 1/4" male npt plug to seal the outlet, test the second chamber(step two).

I just have a single stage that is leaking at the diaphragm, and no way to fix it, extra cost to me.
Bettatail is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 06:15 AM   #19
bsmith
Planted Tank Guru
 
bsmith's Avatar
 
PTrader: (278/99%)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: St.Louis, MO
Posts: 9,059
Default

On a side note/question. Is there any maintenance that needs to be preformed like lubricating/cleaning our DSR's at any point in time or any certain interval?

I have never heard of anything that needed to be done so I doubt there is but just to put it out there.
bsmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2011, 07:33 PM   #20
herns
Planted Tank Guru
 
herns's Avatar
 
PTrader: (228/100%)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,920
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettatail View Post
test the first chamber as tetra73 said(step one).
then use a 1/4" male npt plug to seal the outlet, test the second chamber(step two).

I just have a single stage that is leaking at the diaphragm, and no way to fix it, extra cost to me.

Okay, so I test my Victors today following step 1. After releasing the CO2 tank slowly, the gauge reads at 800 psi but there was a pressure coming out from the joint (see no. 3 point) where the relief fitting and the regulator is. (see photos below.)

I dont know if this is a leak or a normal release pressure coming out from the relief valve (no.2). But, when I open the hose adapter of the regulator to release CO2 (no.1), the pressure coming out from the relief valve seems to stop.

Has anyone experience the same way with Victor Reg test? Is this normal? I test both Regulators and ended with the same results.

No. 3, clouded, is where the pressure is coming out.


Close up
herns is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2011, 08:23 PM   #21
Bettatail
Planted Tank Guru
 
Bettatail's Avatar
 
PTrader: (86/98%)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,418
Default

take out the relief valves, and seal the port with a 1/4" male npt plug, and test it again.


the relief valve, I am not sure what is the problem, may be the pressure setting is low.
Bettatail is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2011, 09:55 PM   #22
audioaficionado
Planted Tank Guru
 
audioaficionado's Avatar
 
PTrader: (9/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Medford, Orygun
Posts: 2,197
Default

My Victor VTS450 passed with flying colors, but the next day after I had started using it for over 24 hours, the pressure relief valve started popping off all the time. I just plugged it for now with a 1/4" plug and all is well.
__________________
Steve

45 gal tall high-tech : 2-23-12 update
Complete CO2 Leak Test : How to build a CO2 regulator


Never argue with a fool. Onlookers often can't tell the difference.
Growing older is mandatory, growing up is optional.
My advice is free and worth every penny.
audioaficionado is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2011, 11:13 PM   #23
herns
Planted Tank Guru
 
herns's Avatar
 
PTrader: (228/100%)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,920
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioaficionado View Post
My Victor VTS450 passed with flying colors, but the next day after I had started using it for over 24 hours, the pressure relief valve started popping off all the time. I just plugged it for now with a 1/4" plug and all is well.

So, its the relief valve. Do you have the same area where the pressure is coming out (from photos)?

I was surprised because both of them has the same issue.
Thanks for the input.
herns is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2011, 11:28 PM   #24
herns
Planted Tank Guru
 
herns's Avatar
 
PTrader: (228/100%)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,920
Default

I just found a similar issue on this thread.


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/eq...ief-valve.html
herns is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2011, 12:06 AM   #25
audioaficionado
Planted Tank Guru
 
audioaficionado's Avatar
 
PTrader: (9/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Medford, Orygun
Posts: 2,197
Default

Yeah it was coming out of your fig #2. Unless the house catches fire, I don't think I have to worry about my 20# CO2 tank exceeding 3000 psi regulator limit and then it might be helpful if it did explode.
__________________
Steve

45 gal tall high-tech : 2-23-12 update
Complete CO2 Leak Test : How to build a CO2 regulator


Never argue with a fool. Onlookers often can't tell the difference.
Growing older is mandatory, growing up is optional.
My advice is free and worth every penny.
audioaficionado is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2011, 03:54 AM   #26
btimmer92
Wannabe Guru
 
btimmer92's Avatar
 
PTrader: (67/99%)
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 1,227
Default

Steve, the relief valve doesn't protect your inlet pressure from exceeding 3000, it keeps the pressure after the first seat from going above the middle pressure, in your case, 300psi.

Hern, If the actual cap on the relief valve were leaking, that would mean the 1st stage seat is broken, not lowering the pressure. That is how you quickly tell if your regulator's first stage is broken, (and it would work just like a single stage regulator, but possibly break the components on the second stage).

However, if your valve is leaking at the threads it is simply not sealed. There may be nothing wrong with any of it. Just take out those relief valves, clean off the threads, and use some good old pipe thread sealant on them, and then screw them back in tightly. It doesn't look like there is anything sealing those connections where the relief valves are. Whoever previously owned them was ignorant/uninformed. You need some kind of pipe thread sealant to seal all pipe thread connections. That should solve your problem. Hope that helps, Hern.
__________________
-Bill



btimmer92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2011, 05:59 AM   #27
herns
Planted Tank Guru
 
herns's Avatar
 
PTrader: (228/100%)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,920
Default

I have plenty of Oatey pipe sealant. I would try that and thanks for your input.

-Herns

Quote:
Originally Posted by btimmer92 View Post
Steve, the relief valve doesn't protect your inlet pressure from exceeding 3000, it keeps the pressure after the first seat from going above the middle pressure, in your case, 300psi.

Hern, If the actual cap on the relief valve were leaking, that would mean the 1st stage seat is broken, not lowering the pressure. That is how you quickly tell if your regulator's first stage is broken, (and it would work just like a single stage regulator, but possibly break the components on the second stage).

However, if your valve is leaking at the threads it is simply not sealed. There may be nothing wrong with any of it. Just take out those relief valves, clean off the threads, and use some good old pipe thread sealant on them, and then screw them back in tightly. It doesn't look like there is anything sealing those connections where the relief valves are. Whoever previously owned them was ignorant/uninformed. You need some kind of pipe thread sealant to seal all pipe thread connections. That should solve your problem. Hope that helps, Hern.
herns is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2011, 01:59 PM   #28
audioaficionado
Planted Tank Guru
 
audioaficionado's Avatar
 
PTrader: (9/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Medford, Orygun
Posts: 2,197
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by btimmer92 View Post
Steve, the relief valve doesn't protect your inlet pressure from exceeding 3000, it keeps the pressure after the first seat from going above the middle pressure, in your case, 300psi.

Hern, If the actual cap on the relief valve were leaking, that would mean the 1st stage seat is broken, not lowering the pressure. That is how you quickly tell if your regulator's first stage is broken, (and it would work just like a single stage regulator, but possibly break the components on the second stage).
Learn something new every day. My regulator passed all phases of the Bettatail test. The next day is when it started unseating the relief valve. I've seen some say that it's OK to plug the hole and don't worry about the relief valve. Others say you can't fix 'em and have to replace it. I could try and replace the O ring, but a new valve is not gonna be cheap.
__________________
Steve

45 gal tall high-tech : 2-23-12 update
Complete CO2 Leak Test : How to build a CO2 regulator


Never argue with a fool. Onlookers often can't tell the difference.
Growing older is mandatory, growing up is optional.
My advice is free and worth every penny.
audioaficionado is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 01:20 PM   #29
TerriM
Algae Grower
 
TerriM's Avatar
 
PTrader: (10/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Springfield, MO
Posts: 94
Default

This has been very, very helpful. Thank you for taking the time to go through it step by step. Very much appreciated!
TerriM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 12:53 AM   #30
JRMott
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
JRMott's Avatar
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NYC
Posts: 426
Default

On the topic of leaks, how do you prevent leaks where the tubing connects to the check valve? I think I need a check valve with barbs for a better seal.
__________________
JRMott is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012