Achieving a natural planted tank

[PhotoRobert]

I've been reading different forums and settled on becoming a member here because it looks cool here.

I'm not sure how to word my question. But I'll try.

I cannot remember seeing a 'successful' planted aquarium that didn't use some sort of algaecide. I don't want to.

Being a chemist, I want to better understand how to achieve a natural planted tank without having to resort to unatural means. In other words, if it's not found in the river of a rain forest, then I'm not going to use it. That's my goal. In some respect, it's almost like a challenge or experiment to me.

That doesn't mean that I won't use a nice canister filter or artificial lighting. You know what I mean?

My aquarium is 20 inches tall, 20 inches wide, and 18 inches front to back. It's probably about 25 gallons? I have a Marineland LED light. The only reason why I chose this set-up is because I got an insanely good deal on the whole thing. I have a Rena Filstar XP1 canister filter because it seems to work really nicely.

It's filled with water and gravel and Malaysian driftwood. No fish. No plants. It looks so good that I almost hate to put anything in it.

I'd like to do an Amazon theme. Echinodorus plants. A frog to eat snails. (An Amano shrimp to control algae even though they aren't from the Amazon). If possible a few tetras and maybe one angelfish would be nice. But the plants would be priority one.

I'm not in a hurry. If the plants grow slowly, then that's ok. But algae is enemy #1. I want zero aglae.

Can you give me some direction, please? Thanks.

[rickztahone]

Originally Posted by PhotoRobert

I've been reading different forums and settled on becoming a member here because it looks cool here.

I'm not sure how to word my question. But I'll try.

I cannot remember seeing a 'successful' planted aquarium that didn't use some sort of algaecide. I don't want to.

Being a chemist, I want to better understand how to achieve a natural planted tank without having to resort to unatural means. In other words, if it's not found in the river of a rain forest, then I'm not going to use it. That's my goal. In some respect, it's almost like a challenge or experiment to me.

That doesn't mean that I won't use a nice canister filter or artificial lighting. You know what I mean?

My aquarium is 20 inches tall, 20 inches wide, and 18 inches front to back. It's probably about 25 gallons? I have a Marineland LED light. The only reason why I chose this set-up is because I got an insanely good deal on the whole thing. I have a Rena Filstar XP1 canister filter because it seems to work really nicely.

It's filled with water and gravel and Malaysian driftwood. No fish. No plants. It looks so good that I almost hate to put anything in it.

I'd like to do an Amazon theme. Echinodorus plants. A frog to eat snails. (An Amano shrimp to control algae even though they aren't from the Amazon). If possible a few tetras and maybe one angelfish would be nice. But the plants would be priority one.

I'm not in a hurry. If the plants grow slowly, then that's ok. But algae is enemy #1. I want zero aglae.

Can you give me some direction, please? Thanks.

one of the main problems you run into trying to run your tank as natural as possible is that in reality it isn't natural because it is in a contained eco-system that you create. that's the reality that we all have to accept. with that being said, there are low-tech set ups that allow you to not mess with the tank as much as you would with a high-tech tank. if you get low light, and low light plants you can definitely avoid algae. If algae alone is your main concern then you could just do those 2 things and your good to go.

The problem lies when people switch from low-light to high-light, because you start looking at other tanks on the forum and say, "man, i want that!". At that point you start dumping in all these additional fertz/chemicals

[Loop]

No matter how you set it up, you should still probably expect some initial algea in the beginning. From what I've read it usually always happens after setting up a new tank.

[Betta Maniac]

Algae is a natural occurrence in the unnatural contained environments we create. I too am trying to stay away from chemical treatments for it and stick with fauna based control (snails and shrimp).

[rickztahone]

Originally Posted by Betta Maniac

Algae is a natural occurrence in the unnatural contained environments we create. I too am trying to stay away from chemical treatments for it and stick with fauna based control (snails and shrimp).

while algae is a natural occurrence in the wild, do you want to have a tank full of algae? Seems like that is what the OP is trying to avoid.

[PhotoRobert]

Originally Posted by rickztahone

while algae is a natural occurrence in the wild, do you want to have a tank full of algae? Seems like that is what the OP is trying to avoid.

Very true.

Let me elaborate a little more. I have a ton of experience with reef aquariums. But the supply of good reef rock, which is essential to the type of reef tank that I want, has gone down the tubes. We moved to a new home and I couldn't find what I'm looking for. Not even online.

So I decided to try planted tanks. I got a 30 gallon. Made it perfect. It was beautiful. People were complimenting me on how awesome it looked. I had laterite substrate, yeast base CO2, T8 lights, and the plants were growing amazingly fast. Then...I added just a few tetras and some corydoras catfish, and a couple autocinclus. I fed extremely sparingly.

The tank crashed so bad. It was CHOKED with algae. The filter intake was choked. You couldn't even see the fish.

I got so mad that I drained it and threw away everything (except not the fish and not the aqaurium). I know that I should have sold stuff or given it away or something. But I cannot remember being so dissapointed so much with anything before. I was devistated. I vowed to never ever keep another aquarium.

So I'm walking through a pet store and find a clearance on the above mentioned stuff.

And here I am trying it again. Sigh.

Looking for a better way.

[PhotoRobert]

Wow. Crying out loud.

I guess I'll have a little fun now since it really doesn't matter.

"Getting in touch with moderator" "How to contact moderator" "What to get with income tax return" These kinds of threads are all above my post?

Flame me. Say things like ...

"If it's a waste of your time then why are you posting? Hahahaha!"

Or, "Maybe those are more important subjects than yours!"

Or, "You already got a one-sentence-answer from somebody!"

Or, "Those posts are made by extremely brilliant advanced other worlds aliens who are refined in their discerning subjects!"

Or, whatever. LOL!

Carry on!

[PhotoRobert]

Oh, before I go, rickztahone -- thanks for your post. That really did help. My sincere thanks and compliments.

[gbose]

I have a 25G bowfront tank, with 43Watts of lighting. I have a pleco and a couple of nerites snails (also a bunch of pond snails that snuck in) to keep the algae under control. I have a little algae still, but not very noticable.

I did get a lot of brown gunk in the early days -- I believe were diatoms -- but the pleco & snails got rid of it. I'm dosing Seachem Flourish and Excel for my plants, and that seems to have got rid of algae, pretty much...

Good luck!

GB

[seadreamer]

The Diana Walstad method might be what you're looking for.

Link:

http://theaquariumwiki.com/Walstad_method

[Sharkfood]

I don't think many people here are using algaecide unless theyre using excel occasionally.

Zero algae all the time is hard to do, but it can be kept to the level where you can't see it unless you really look for it. How to keep algae at bay is dependant very much on what sort of set up you are putting together. Low tech is definately easier in that regard as algae isn't as likely to grow, and if it does it will grow much more slowly.

If you want to grow all sorts of high light plants, then things like CO2 and copious fertilization become more necessary. IME it can be challenging to keep GDA at bay in a high tech tank, as high CO2 levels don't seem to diminish its growth, and it loves high light. I've combatted it in the past with increased phosphate dosing, with mixed results.

Usually, if you keep things stable, the tank will reach a balance at some point, but there still might be times where algae starts growing for seemingly no reason. This is especially true after you move things around or rescape. The biggest way most people "shoot themselves in the foot" so to say, is by trying to use too much light over their tanks.

There's no reason to be upset because someone else's post was answered first. Those questions are just easier to answer. No one wants to give bad advice here, but "how can I keep from getting algae" is a lot more difficult to answer than it may seem. The simple answer is "correct lighting, CO2, and ferts" which may seem like a painfully simple concept, but most of us have struggled with it.

The best thing you could probably do is elaborate more on what plants you want to grow, and what equipment you have or plan to get. Then forum members can give more targetted advice that pertains more directly to your particular situation.

[mmelnick]

It's true. Those posts are made by extremely brilliant advanced other worlds aliens who are refined in their discerning subjects!

[PhotoRobert]

This helps! Thanks very much!

[wkndracer]

I try not to post unless it can be helpful and this thread presents some real challenges.

Based on the tank being 20x20x18
a) This tank really isn't large enough to be a permanent home for angel fish. (too small)
b) Angel fish truly love to be in a tank with shrimp. (rumor has it they taste like chicken)
c) Plain gravel is a poor choice of substrate (literally) for a planted tank. Nothing is provided to support the plants.

You mention being a chemist so I hope you've heard the Environmental Engineers favorite phrase;
The solution to pollution is dilution. Tiny tanks are tougher to balance than larger ones for this simple reason.

In a planted tank short story, balance is the key.
Light drives everything plant and algae related. Technology today gives us a huge range of choices. Plants need the right range in the light provided, algae will use whatever it can get.

NPK and trace minerals (plant food) you need enough for the plants to thrive or algae eats the weakened plant and explodes throughout the tank. Rich substrate gives rooted plants more access. Dosing the water column feeds both.
Balance takes both (imo). Low tech 'natural' lends itself more to enriched substrate with minor water column additions while EI puts nutrients in abundant supply for all.

Doing a 'natural' tank takes more research and thoughtful planning than high tech starting out because you're not doing limitless growth and resetting the parameters weekly.

I know less than nothing regarding the keeping of frogs so no comment there at all.

Soil (or MTS) capped with Flourite, Corys, LFABN Pleco, a smaller schooling species and shrimp would be my guess trying to stock this tank.
HTH

[Canuck]

Best advice I can give you is choose what kind of tank you want before you set it up. Choose a method that is consistent with your goals. Use/buy appropriate sized equipment. Don't deviate. Many people are successful with EI, many are successful with Walstad style tanks. A large number of posts in the algae section are posted by people who pick and choose aspects which are inconsistent. For example, I have 5 watts/gallon of T5HO on my 75 gallon tank, don't use CO2 or ferts. Why do I have algae? Read up on the methods, understand them. Every single successful method and tank provides nutrients (including CO2) adequate to the type of plants and the light that is driving their growth. Last piece of advice, don't get carried away with the lights. The more light you have, the more difficult it is to control. And don't be scared of providing nutrients, plants can't grow without them. If plants aren't growing then they are dying. Dead or dying plants provide the perfect conditions for algae outbreaks.

Hope this helps