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Old 12-01-2011, 02:36 AM   #586
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*facepalm* a law enforcement dog that waterboards itself... aye-yai-yai
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Old 12-01-2011, 02:44 AM   #587
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Gunner, my friend's Niko son, isn't fat, either. He's just built like a tank. Here's a picture of Gunner when he was a pup - see the build. (That's Recon under the table.)


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Old 12-01-2011, 04:07 AM   #588
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what breed are those dogs? they arent shepards are they the reason i ask is when have my dogs they looked nothing like that.
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Old 12-01-2011, 04:56 AM   #589
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Those are some great pictures! The bone on those dogs is mighty impressive. I've never tried putting any of her toys in her water bucket, that might be interesting. I've sure known some labs and porties to go bobbing for 'em. That story with the Kong is great. I'm glad he came out of it okay.

This is a really old picture, but your puppy pics reminded me of it. She was ~3 months old here.

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Old 12-01-2011, 10:35 AM   #590
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what breed are those dogs? they arent shepards are they the reason i ask is when have my dogs they looked nothing like that.
Yes, they are German ShepHERDS. ShepHERDS were developed to HERD SHEEP, thus the correct spelling of the breed. They were later developed to be multi-purpose working dogs.

These Schutzhund dogs are not the typical "German" ShepHERD seen in the US, as they come from working lines, which typically means European or Eastern European lines, where the breeding objectives are far different than the AKC type here in the US. In those lines, you see a lot more sable coloring which are what all these pictures show - sable is wolf-like (agouti) coloring that is black hairs spread sort of evenly among another color such as tan or mahogany, rather than solid black saddles over the back as is popular in the US.

*********

Nice looking pup! How about some adult pics, especially on the field! What's her forte in the sport - tracking, protection, or obedience - usually they shine more in one due to the drive profile of the dog. Congrats on the Sch II - that is a nice piece of work to achieve, especially in a female. My working days are looooong since past, now I'm just hosting rescues. My current Niko boy is a runt with probably a kidney issue, as he's nearly half the size of the line (he's probably 70-75 lb range). But OMG, that means he has twice the drive per pound! He's like a Jack Russell in a GSD size, although he is NOT hyper, he is DRIVEN, big difference. He settles just fine, but when he's DOING something, it's like he's on high octane - driven, pushy, focused, INSISTENT. He would have destroyed my house and beat me up if he'd been full size! (Example, to ask to go outside, he body slams the door.) And, he would have beat the tarnation out of my other rescue, too.

HA! I do the same thing, see! For size reference!

And below is Recon's paw - he wasn't even done growing at that time, and his paw is 3 inches across. Recon and Gunner are littermates, and Recon is the skinny one, although I'd bet he's filled out a lot since I saw him. Gunner looks fat, but he's not. Those two live in Texas and are working dogs, and you cannot keep fat on a working dog in that climate - it will kill them. Not to mention on a 120 pound dog (Recon was 110 at the time) you don't want any extra weight as the hips are already carrying enough. They must have had a dam with gigantic genes, as Niko is much more typey as a working Sch dog, appropriately smaller and less bulky than Gunner. Gunner and Recon make great patrol types due to their size and the intimidation factor - Gunner is like a freaking draft horse when you get up close to him - you feel more like you should be pitching a saddle over him than grabbing a lead.


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Old 12-01-2011, 02:54 PM   #591
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I love the puppy picture with the soup can... so cute!

I'll try to dig up some more photos of my girl. She's two now and I'm considering breeding her, but I don't know if I'm going to try for SchIII, talk about work! Her forte is mostly obedience (I've also done AKC obedience trials and she's gotten 6 high in trials) but she's a really good tracker as well. She's a little too small to be a real force in protection work (she's 70lbs) or so but has really good bite. She's also indimidating as all hell to most people because they say she looks like a wolf. Or around here, a bit coyote. I definitely know what you mean about the weight on working dogs, I'm in AZ and the heat here doesn't tolerate any excess weight. Most people think the working dogs are much too skinny, but my girl's drive keeps any weight off. She eats, no let me rephrase that, she inhales her food.
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Old 12-01-2011, 03:54 PM   #592
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Trap/Skeet shooting shotguns are absolutely ridiculous in price. Even a very nice automatic shotgun that you would actually use for bird hunting can be cheaper than a mid-range shotgun for competition or trap shooting.
Yeah, um, try tactical (code for sniper) rifles. Don't ask me how I know this... I will disavow any knowledge.

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What?!?! DK bought a factory made gun? DK I would think that you'd be able to turn that caulk gun into a real gun.
Some things, DK doesn't MESS WITH. Like pH monitors, gas regulators, in line TDS monitors, firearms, etc. It's a balance between re-inventing the wheel, but learning, but also knowing when the DIY learning curve is not worth the risk of DIY. That, and DK does NOT want to encourage any loonie thinking on the part of Other Geek. And besides, that's not a caulk gun, that's a micro-extruder. Fancier names make things worth more, you know...
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Old 12-01-2011, 11:28 PM   #593
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Wow, schutzhund really sounds interesting. I love the dedication to producing a better and better animal with better and better capabilities. Unfortunately when I was looking for a dog I wanted a pit bull and got into looking at pit bull breeders (as if you need to get them from a breeder, there are hundreds of them in shelters in Pittsburgh alone) and found out how terrible breeders are breeding them for the opposite- bigger heads, more muscular bodies and tougherness, disregarding problems with hip displasia, heart issues and general unhealthiness. That lost some of my faith in breeders But there are still definitely good breeders who know what their doing and are working towards a better dog.

I've shot sniper rifles before... Suuuuuper cool. Turns out I'm a pretty good shot too, who knew?
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Old 12-01-2011, 11:47 PM   #594
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Wow, schutzhund really sounds interesting. I love the dedication to producing a better and better animal with better and better capabilities. Unfortunately when I was looking for a dog I wanted a pit bull and got into looking at pit bull breeders (as if you need to get them from a breeder, there are hundreds of them in shelters in Pittsburgh alone) and found out how terrible breeders are breeding them for the opposite- bigger heads, more muscular bodies and tougherness, disregarding problems with hip displasia, heart issues and general unhealthiness. That lost some of my faith in breeders But there are still definitely good breeders who know what their doing and are working towards a better dog.

I've shot sniper rifles before... Suuuuuper cool. Turns out I'm a pretty good shot too, who knew?
Its the same with any breed nowadays, people inbreed all over and do whatever they can to get a certain trait out regardless the effect on the puppies down the road. I had an Italian Mastiff, Cane Corso. Beautiful dog, was fine for the first 18 months of his life then epilepsy hit him. Spent a few years on meds and it was managed to about 3 seizures a month, all in a cluster. Then one day he went into a bout and couldn't stop seizing and 36 hours and $2000 later, had to put him down. After doing some research, then is one breeder in Ontario, Canada who started breeding dogs and introduced it into the line and 10 years down the road, a good percentage of dogs now in this whole area of that breed are either carriers or end up with it down the road. This lady is so not liked, there is websites dedicated to her and the people affected by her wrecklessness, but its something that might not show until you breed your Cane Corso with someone else's, they're both carriers and then poof, you start putting puppies out. Say 50% of those end up epileptic, well the other 50% the people breed them cause their dogs are fine, and even some of the 50% that are effect will probably try and breed and get some money off puppies before they die or get too bad. It's sad that a whole breed of dogs in this area is ruined.
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:48 AM   #595
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I had an Italian Mastiff, Cane Corso. Beautiful dog, was fine for the first 18 months of his life then epilepsy hit him. Spent a few years on meds and it was managed to about 3 seizures a month, all in a cluster. Then one day he went into a bout and couldn't stop seizing and 36 hours and $2000 later, had to put him down.
I'm very sorry to hear of your experience, very painful. Whenever a breed gets fashionable, especially if it's rare, the profiteers emerge from the woodwork.

In general, unfortunately, there is a strong undercurrent of profiteering in livestock/pets in US culture, linked with a tendency to breed toward charicature rather than correctness. While this does exist in other cultures, in American culture both pricing and traits are charicaturized --this is what American culture tends to do - if a smashed face is sort of cute, we breed to such smashed face distortion that the animals cannot properly breathe on a plane, etc. There is also a tendency to covet "fancy" animals as an item of status, an accessory of fashion, a statement of power or wealth, etc., rather than as a living organism to be kept with good husbandry and with which to develop an inter-species understanding. (Japanese culture also tends toward this; however, unlike American culture, Japanese culture is very educated on quality and is insistent on quality, whereas ofttimes American culture is not.)

**********

In other news, the last pieces of DK's Aquavac project have arrived, and I believe they will work as intended. I'm a bit burned out with projects, right now, so will probably not fire up the AV for a while, yet. But it's good to know I have the stuff all in place...
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:16 AM   #596
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Wow, schutzhund really sounds interesting. I love the dedication to producing a better and better animal with better and better capabilities.
My philosophy is that everything you need to know to live wisely, you learn in Schutzhund training. No joke.


The thing observers don't necessarily understand about the sophistication of Schutzhund is that it REQUIRES a sound, balanced animal. The sport entails three aspects: tracking a scent, protection (chase and bite and corner and hold the "bad guy," and fight him if he resists), and precision obedience.

What most lay folks don't realize is that to excel in the sport, you must have a BALANCED dog. A dog who is rip roaring to protect and use the vise-grip bitework, but who is not balanced, will not be able to stop and focus and THINK, to do the tracking, or stop and read commands precisely, to do precision obedience. A dog must be able to MODULATE VARIOUS DRIVES (prey drive, protection drive, food drive, pack order, etc.) in order to switch from optimal performance from one of the three aspects to another of them; each aspect requires a different optimal profile, and the world class performers are able to MODULATE between drives to work in the correct drive profile for that aspect.

What most lay folks also don't understand is the delicate and incredible place of the handler. It's an art form for the handler to let go of his/her pre-conceived ideas and goals and ego, and learn to READ their dog, and work WITH the dog's profile and suggest to the dog when and how to modulate. (This is not unlike working with horses and flying lead changes and many dressage moves.) There is a saying in the tracking aspect - what goes down the line comes back up the line - if the handler is all nervous and full of pressure for the dog to perform well on tracking, it affects the dog's ability to concentrate and perform well on tracking, a very cerebral activity at higher levels when the dog is reading overlapping and various age track scents and must distinguish which track is the correct one to follow NOW, to stay in order on the track. The handler must develop confidence in themself - that they have indeed taught the dog the correct objectives and how the problem solving should occur - and confidence in the dog, that the dog knows what the objective is and has the skills to achieve it. At that point the handler must GET OUT OF THE WAY and let the dog do the work. This is harder than it seems, it entails a full trust in the dog.

Stuff like that. Schutzhund training will take a person's mind to incredible places, if the person pays attention and learns. It's all in there.

You can also meet some INTERESTING people, LOL.
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Old 12-02-2011, 06:37 PM   #597
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I completely agree with you about what it takes to do this kind of training. At first it can be very difficult to take a step back and let your dog do what they do.

And yes, interesting people indeed.

I finally found some working pictures of her, and one with her favorite toy.





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Old 12-03-2011, 12:03 PM   #598
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She looks GREAT!

What I love to chuckle about is that most folks will have difficulty seeing the second picture and the third as the same dog - HA! Kody (that's my Niko boy) greets us each morning looking rather like the second shot - mouth open wide, teeth ready for action. He is so peculiar in that he HAS to put his mouth on you to feel you, in order to feel like he has done a complete greeting - rather like a blind person has the need to feel you with their hands - he somehow completes his greeting through oral feedback! He is not trying to bite - he is feeling you through his teeth - he never clamps down. I suppose it's a load of ambivalence on his part (this dog does NOT have confidence issues), his drive suggest to him to push for pack dominance, but he KNOWS he ranks lower, and will lick you like a fiend, but then always has to finish his greeting with a teeth-feel. He has all these endearing compulsions due to his high drive. And since I don't work him, I let him indulge in them because it helps vent steam for him - he simply needs to vent steam in them.

That booda picture is to die for... those eyes...

I can't do boodas in my house, they end up in teeny-tiny micro shreds that mess up the vacuum and make EVEN MORE GSD mess in my house. When Kodiak was little, he had a big horse saddle pad in his crate - EVERY night he would drag that thing out and fight it, until it became nothing but shreds. He is SUCH a funny boy - whenever in the crate with the door shut, EVERY time you let him loose, he jams his head against the door like a battering ram and SHOVES his way out, to "help" you do it faster. He is such a hilarious tiny guy.

I really like the agitation shot - she shows nice German structure - good deep angulation on the shoulder blades and deep but proper angulation on the rear quarters. Plus, a nice strong back line.

Add more pics and text any time you like!

**********

In other news, I FINALLY got notice today that the nylon rods for the (shrimp-y - we're back on topic, here!!) Maserati project have shipped and will be here Monday! Whoo-hooo! They've been on back order over a month, now, but DK was too cheap to get them elsewhere because they were screaming cheap from drillspot.com and I spend so much money on things shrimp-y that I have to save where I can, and it teaches me patience, too.

**********

Hey Liam - what's with the new pony avatar??
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Old 12-03-2011, 03:16 PM   #599
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I think Liam is a horse pimp now, too!
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Old 12-03-2011, 07:04 PM   #600
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The mods were joking that they'd make the bad apples among us have a pony avatar and write in pink. I volunteered to test it out... So far my shame is unbearable.

All seriousness aside, you better hook me up with one of DK's magic maseratis once you start cranking them out :P
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