What LED combo will give pleasing view?+growth
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Old 12-14-2014, 12:20 PM   #1
saiko
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What LED combo will give pleasing view?+growth


hi folks,
one of my(AHH) group member needs some of your opinions on choosing an LED combination. So would be great if you folks can chip in. I follow the posts over here regularly, so I'm kind of aware of possibilities and latest trend.

What he is after is some ideal/perfect/best looking colors in his tank. He saw the BML ratio of LEDs online and is mad about the Dutch-variant reviews, although he hasn't seen one in person. And he wants one such combination that he never wants to change ever and wants to pop-up any fish colors to max.


BTW its a not a fulltoo planted, but just anubias and java ferns. So basically he wants to view best from his set of denisoniis,cardinals, set of Geophagus winemilleri, some L numbers, some blue-based discus etc. Dont consider this as forever stocking, but will be FW.


So, what do you guys suggest?
I was suggesting a CW:R:G:B:UV=7:1:2:2:2:1, just from my perspective, will wait to listen on that from you folks. If you need more info to help, just shoot.



Regards,
Kumar.
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Old 12-14-2014, 01:39 PM   #2
jeffkrol
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i have my own opinion but lets start w/ BML


FF-Blue 13000K board: (10) 5700K Cool White, (2) 470nm Blue, (1) 450nm Royal Blue, (1) 525nm Green, (1) 660nm Deep Red
Quote:
The Fish Focus Blue 13000K is calibrated to enhance the blue, green, aqua and violet colors on your fish and has rapidly become the favorite of customers seeking a light to enhance fish that are predominately blue or green. If you keep fish like Cichlids, Discus, Tetras or Platies and want their blues and greens to “pop” while their reds and yellows remain “natural” in color, this powerful light is guaranteed to do the job.
FF-Red board 5000K: (11) 6500K Cool White, (4) 660nm Deep Red
Quote:
The Fish Focus Red 5000K is calibrated to enhance the reds, yellows, gold and orange colors on your fish. If you keep fish like Cichlids, Discus, Tetras or goldfish and want their natural reds and yellows to “pop” while their blues and greens remain “natural” in color this powerful light is guaranteed to do the job.
Combining and dividing by 2 w/ creativity gives you one idea...
5-5700k,5-6500k, 1-RB, 1-B, 1-G, 2-deep red

Personally I'd go more like
6-6500k, 3- 3500k, 2 cyan, 2 RB, 2 Deep red


Another approach would be to go for a very high CRI, making things as natural as one can..
http://forum.buildmyled.com/index.ph...ximum-cri.141/
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Last edited by jeffkrol; 12-14-2014 at 02:02 PM.. Reason: cri
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Old 12-15-2014, 04:32 AM   #3
Siddhartha Saive
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Thank you Sai for starting this topic

Sai is helping me with the dyi LED setup for my tank.
A few details about my tank
Tank is 8' L x 3' W x 3.5 ' H.
~ 600 gallons FW low tech planted setup. The plants are mostly anubias, ferns and mosses tied onto lots of driftwood. Very few plants like crypts and vals planted in the substrate which may be removed.
Link to my tank journal if ur interested
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=486449

Current light setup is T5HO.
4 foot unit 54W x 4 and 3 foot unit 39W x 4 totalling to 372 W.

Upgrade to LED is solely for a better display. Not for the plants. Looking for your opinions

1. How many 3W LED will be needed for my tank?
2. What colour combination to go with for the best possible display?

Thanks jeffkrol for the info. Very helpful
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Old 12-15-2014, 01:23 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siddhartha Saive View Post
Thanks jeffkrol for the info. Very helpful
No problem.. Now that I see the massive scale of this project.. I'm not seeing much savings going DIY..

I'd review your "off the shelf" choices for a minute..

The 2 most economical and also custom configurable is:
Reefbreeders X2 $1000US plus
https://www.reefbreeders.com/shop/photon-48/
Or a custom DsunY:
http://www.dsuny.com.cn/En/Product_D...931&id=1080547
DsunY ut4-fw-l X 2

The tank above uses a 2 channel custom spectrum that you can see here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHX1...ature=youtu.be
http://youtu.be/lkq9rr8NQtc

As a DIY you are looking at like 112 3W LED's over that area (DSunY density), which would probably be a minimum LED density over such a large tank..

Assuming a density of 9sq inches (fairly light) per LED over a surface of say, 7x3 ft would require 336 LED's..
About the new 4 channel DsunY controller
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...ighlight=dsuny

The simplest way to approach the DIY design is to think in common light terms..

RGBW... And add LED's accordingly per channel..
(blues and violets) (greens and cyans) (reds,orange) (whites from cool to warm)
Gives you pretty much unlimited color spectrum and control..
Splitting the white channel into 2 is also a benefit (ww, cw)
This is a simple 4 channel design.. Just make 4-6 panels like this;
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Last edited by jeffkrol; 12-15-2014 at 01:47 PM.. Reason: edit
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Old 12-15-2014, 06:47 PM   #5
Siddhartha Saive
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Thanks jeffkrol ur awesome

Our main dilemma is the number of led required. If we go with CREE XTE 3W LEDs, how many LED would be enough for the tank.. if we run the lights at 50 to 70 %

I'm thinking of following the buildmyled combo of CW, royal blue, green, cyan, red, deep red, amber

We planning to go with 4 modules for the tank with each module having channels
21 CW
4 Royal blue
4 green +4 cyan
4 red+ 4 deep red
4 amber

So 45 led in each module.
Total of 180 led.
Will this be enough? Shud we add more whites?
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Old 12-15-2014, 08:01 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siddhartha Saive View Post
Thanks jeffkrol ur awesome

Our main dilemma is the number of led required. If we go with CREE XTE 3W LEDs, how many LED would be enough for the tank.. if we run the lights at 50 to 70 %

I'm thinking of following the buildmyled combo of CW, royal blue, green, cyan, red, deep red, amber

We planning to go with 4 modules for the tank with each module having channels
21 CW
4 Royal blue
4 green +4 cyan
4 red+ 4 deep red
4 amber

So 45 led in each module.
Total of 180 led.
Will this be enough? Should we add more whites?
Personally green,amber and red are all taken care of using warm whites and cool whites mixed..
So I lean to a 2:1 mix cool white to warm white..
Adding RB
Cyan
Deep red.
simplistic..

Technically the rb is probably not necessary either...

Fluval follows my "philosophy" fairly well.. Obviously it is not "the only" way to do anything..
http://www.fluvalaquatics.com/ca/fre...rformance-led/

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Last edited by jeffkrol; 12-15-2014 at 08:11 PM.. Reason: fluval
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Old 12-15-2014, 08:18 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siddhartha Saive View Post

So 45 led in each module.
Total of 180 led.
1W per gallon is plenty.. Besides it is a DIY.. you can always add more..
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Old 12-16-2014, 05:06 AM   #8
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Thanks Jeff. So are you suggesting 1W/G all together or just the CW+WW.
Plan is 21CW:7WW:4R:4DR4RB:4G:4C:4A, gets to (52 LED/fix)x4. On whole calculates to 624W
Waiting for the signal...

Last edited by saiko; 12-16-2014 at 05:07 AM.. Reason: added WW
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Old 12-16-2014, 05:55 AM   #9
Siddhartha Saive
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The tank will always be low tech. Won't be adding plants to the substrate. The plants are mostly anubias ferns and mosses. So won't need high light intensity.
So looking for the led number that will be good enough for a good display running at around 70%
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Old 12-16-2014, 09:12 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saiko View Post
Thanks Jeff. So are you suggesting 1W/G all together or just the CW+WW.
Plan is 21CW:7WW:4R:4DR4RB:4G:4C:4A, gets to (52 LED/fix)x4. On whole calculates to 624W
Waiting for the signal...
That should be fine. BUT this tank is very large and a bit beyond my "comfort zone" of napkin calculations..

That said, using a typical greenhouse recommendation for growth of plants 405W over 1.5 sq meters (estimate based on interpolating T5 to LED) is a good guesstimate for growth.

As to the LED choices.. seems fine. There is more than one way for this..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siddhartha Saive View Post
The tank will always be low tech. Won't be adding plants to the substrate. The plants are mostly anubias ferns and mosses. So won't need high light intensity.
So looking for the led number that will be good enough for a good display running at around 70%
70% of 624W is 437W.. so the above run @ 70% is theoretically in the ballpark..

This is a very large tank and over lighting it is virtually impossible short of putting an led right next to each other over the entire 2.23 sq meters of surface area..
The above is an LED every 4x4" area on average... a low density..
This is really the best "I" can do w/out more experience over a large tank..

Use some commercial fixtures as a guideline:
http://www.tranquilmarine.com.au/sta...ium-light-fw01

THE best way to approach this would be to build one module and check PAR @ 3 feet or whatever distance yo calculate from light to substrate.
You can test in air..

272W.. Just checked w/ Kessil's calculator.. and that is the recommended light level for this size tank.. They do have a disclaimer regarding larger tanks though..
388W would be what you'd consider using a 70% baseline..There lights are good for a 24" circle approx. and fairly high PAR to about 24" @ 36" they would probably be low..
Depending on the brand of LED and what optics, if any you choose.. the 624 is still in the ball park..
Remember that most likely your LED's from the start will not be driven to 3W each..or you shouldn't, for heat considerations.. The real wattage will most likely be around 2, before dimming.
Of course the driver ma's is your choice..
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Last edited by jeffkrol; 12-16-2014 at 10:28 AM.. Reason: math
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Old 12-17-2014, 03:18 PM   #11
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Saw your thread on Reefcentral, figured I'd just copy/paste it here depending on which you will check first



Dayum, that 42" height tho!


I would recommend to stay away from '3w' class diodes. I would instead use the Vero 18 from Bridgelux. Here is O2Surplus' latest build using them: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=603658

He is using 1:1 ratio of 5600K and 2700K 97CRI but is running them at a 3.33 to 1 ratio current-wise, which is about what I'd recommend for looks. I would also consider adding a few Rebel ES 'lime' to the array. As bright as the white LEDs will be, adding in lime just puts it over the top and is a nice 'missing link' IMHO. A few violet LEDs would round it out and can help to give it a nicer hue.

Your tank is 42" tall, but low-tech, so that works in your favor. I personally always think of tank builds as 24" sections, as braced tanks are usually split like that, so your tank would have four 'sections' 24"x36" to cover. Taking the 42" height into account, you'll probably want to use two cool white and one warm white per section, keeping with O2's total number of 12x LEDs. If you're going to add lime, only add maybe around 16x for the entire tank.
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Old 12-20-2014, 05:14 PM   #12
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Surface area / 22 = number of LED's

157

Quote:
How Many LEDs to use for my tank?
When building a LED light unit for your tank, the first question comes to your mind is- how many LEDs to use. The rule of thumb says-

Numbers of LED to use = The area of footprint of your tank / 22.
http://playsofrays.blogspot.in/2012/...made-easy.html

Quote:
So 45 led in each module.
Total of 180 led.
Will this be enough? Shud we add more whites?
180x .7 = 126..

Pretty much have your answer on multiple levels..
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Old 12-21-2014, 04:28 AM   #13
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Thanks again Jeff, that Looks like a general formula of 2.5" spacing b/w LED. So is that it?

Also it doesn't seem to consider the height of fixture from surface. This tank just has 6-8" clearance from hood, so is the plan to increase the density at 60deg optics a good idea? and dialing down intensity. Also is the reason not to use point sources like veros.

cheers!
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Old 12-21-2014, 05:54 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saiko View Post
Thanks again Jeff, that Looks like a general formula of 2.5" spacing b/w LED. So is that it?

Also it doesn't seem to consider the height of fixture from surface. This tank just has 6-8" clearance from hood, so is the plan to increase the density at 60deg optics a good idea? and dialing down intensity. Also is the reason not to use point sources like veros.

cheers!
Start w/ the basics:
60 degrees at 6 inches gives a 48 sq inch area of coverage. (Tan of 30 degrees x height) 72 leds would roughly cover your surface area. Doubling the density gets you to 144..

Point is at 120, 90, or 60 degrees you have plenty of initial coverage and all optics will do is change the concentration at depth (less spill out the sides, more PAR at the bottom.).

Veros are just color restrictive, which I'm not crazy about.. nor putting one color and then clustering colors around it.. It is a design choice not a function choice.
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