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Old 10-19-2011, 04:15 PM   #46
TactusMortus
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Settle down gordon people buy off of ebay all the time and receive there illegal plants. They will eventually realize what a harmless plant buce is as it grows so slow there is no way it would turn into an invasive species. Just because you are having an issue getting the plant no need to keep stating how illegal it is. We are not talking about drugs here.
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Old 10-19-2011, 04:31 PM   #47
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I just ironically I know it but ... who cares? I know a popular european aqua forum that sells bucephalandras plants. And now what, they must removed them from sales? For years, many Asian shops sent by letters many plants to many country in the world, without sanitation test. For years, this practice is used, nobody doesn't fight of this, because it is like to fight with the windmills. Nobody wants to bother to prove this.

With such an attitude like yours, an american aquarium will never reach such a plants like european. To brave the world should be.

The law exists, and the aquarium is governed by its own law. If the aquarium had to stick to the law, we would have only a few plant species to this day. Also, I think that the discussion of this topic is complex. It is best to be silent, and continue with impunity to show more photos of these plants. Let no one asks where I got it, maybe I'm one of those scientists
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Old 10-21-2011, 06:17 AM   #48
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Funny how things grows on you. At first I was like WTF $90 for a anubia looking plant? Now I want some. Your collection is HOT Vasteq. I guess Buce is the new rare crypt or Erio. Unlike a Erio, I can actually keep Buce in my shrimp tanks if they have Anubia requirements.

If the feds/customs really wanted to bust people....I think there are WAY more illegal coral smuggling than buce smuggling....The reef hobby is huge compared to planted tanks. You think all the super cool corals from paradise island arrived via customs?
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Old 10-21-2011, 07:37 AM   #49
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Settle down gordon people buy off of ebay all the time and receive there illegal plants. They will eventually realize what a harmless plant buce is as it grows so slow there is no way it would turn into an invasive species. Just because you are having an issue getting the plant no need to keep stating how illegal it is. We are not talking about drugs here.
It's not because they'd become invasive, it's because they're being torn out of the protected forests in Borneo, huge swaths of them, leaving riverbanks bare and endangering wildlife there. They grow so slowly that it will take centuries to recover just from the hobbyist demand.

But hey, it's only rainforest, right?
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Old 10-21-2011, 02:12 PM   #50
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That never even crossed my mind. You are correct I can see how that would be an issue. Now if those who did collect would only collect a few start tissue culturing and there would be no problem.
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Old 10-21-2011, 04:09 PM   #51
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It's not because they'd become invasive, it's because they're being torn out of the protected forests in Borneo, huge swaths of them, leaving riverbanks bare and endangering wildlife there. They grow so slowly that it will take centuries to recover just from the hobbyist demand.

But hey, it's only rainforest, right?
+1. I admire Gordon for taking the time to research this so extensively... I don't know much about Buce. species and I'll admit that, but I can just say that from history, taking massive amounts of a slow growing species (or any species) without concern as to how it will effect the environment is never good.

Now I have a passing love of Nepenthes specie and I would oh so love to get some awesome ones out of Borneo, but I don't, I buy US grown ones despite them being overpriced and not as cool :P And I always make sure they're not endangered or being imported.
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Old 10-21-2011, 04:25 PM   #52
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Wow, I'm actually starting to have some small glimmering of hope for mankind. Seriously.

I'm sure someone will take care of that for me soon though.
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Old 01-05-2012, 04:52 PM   #53
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It is really an amazing plants. Compare old picture of my Kualakuayan2, it was not in good condition, and had a strange colour:


Now is a huge, and change colour (do you see blue sheen?):


After I cut one big growth cone (along with a flower) there showed many new leaves in whole root:


Bucephalandra Motoleyana "Red" - is one of my favorit. Very colourfull, looks charmingly:


Bucephalandra Pearl Grey - see this shining spot, very densely distributed throughout the leaf.:


I observed that Bucephalandra with age can changes color.

Bucephalandra Melawi



Bucephalandra Fake Katherinae



Both to compare: F. Catherinae on the left Melawi on the right:


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Old 01-05-2012, 11:05 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by mordalphus View Post
It's not because they'd become invasive, it's because they're being torn out of the protected forests in Borneo, huge swaths of them, leaving riverbanks bare and endangering wildlife there. They grow so slowly that it will take centuries to recover just from the hobbyist demand.

But hey, it's only rainforest, right?
I don't think the forests of Borneo are protected. I only say this because there is destruction of much of the crypt habitat there. They clear the land away for palm oil plantations. Some species of crypts (i.e. a specific location) will never be seen again because of this. So sad.

I agree with you that taking large amounts of any plant from it's habitat is not a good practice.

The other side to the argument is, what if these plants were never collected and maintained in peoples collections before the land was cleared away? At least if these plants exist in peoples collections then it has a chance at avoiding extinction. This is not a problem in protected areas, but i don't think that is the case in Borneo.
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Old 01-05-2012, 11:40 PM   #55
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....The other side to the argument is, what if these plants were never collected and maintained in peoples collections before the land was cleared away? At least if these plants exist in peoples collections then it has a chance at avoiding extinction....
Excellent point!

I got out of Reef tank keeping in the late early 90s when I learned about collectors using cyanide to stun fish for the hobby. The fish would eventually die and the corals died faster.

I'm don't believe in greedy collection methods. But, the aquatic plant hobby is not anywhere near the threat that clear cut logging is. Even if no Bucephalandra, C. Bullosa or Orchids etc were ever collected the Corporate Farms are going to destroy the habitat.

YES, hobbies that keep the pure forms of these plants (vs. Hybreds) many be the only way to preserve them.

The only sure thing about extinction is that it is final.
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:41 AM   #56
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im going to vietnam this year, planning to collect some aquatic plants there but have no idea how to transport them over. If anyone can help me, it be great
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:47 AM   #57
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bsmith and vasteq, how much lighting do you provide on these Bucephas? What ferts (how much and how often) do you dose in your tanks with these plants? And lastly, how do you deal with algae since they're slow growing? I'll take your answer off the air.

PS - I found this article from Google Search. It seems full of ideas regarding the environment where Bucephalandra species is endemic.

http://www.blueplanetbiomes.org/se_asian_rnfrst.htm
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:35 AM   #58
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I provide 2x18W in 80L tank, I have also prepared another 2x18W but i dont using it yet because i have still soft algae. From 3 weeks I dosed fertz by Estimate Index:

Macro (recipe for whole month - 12 doses per month = 3 doses per week):
• [3/16 teaspoon KNO3] x 12 doses = 2 and 1/4 teaspoons KNO3
• [1/16 teaspoon KH2PO4] x 12 = 3/4 teaspoon KH2PO4
• [1/2 teaspoon MgSO4x7H2O] x 12 = 6 teaspoons MgSO4x7H2O
mixed in 600ml of water, dosed 50ml 3 times per week

Micro:
CSM+B
(Fe) 7.8%
(Mn) 2.2%
(Cu) 0.1%
(Zn) 0.4%
(B) 1.4%
(Mo) 0.06%

• 1/2 teaspoon mixed in 200ml water dosed 25ml 2 times per week.

Micro and macro dosed alternately: Monday Micro (at night), Tuesday - Macro (at day), and so on. I dont dosing at Friday and Saturday. In Sunday another dose of Macro + change about 40% of fresh water (RO+tap water).

I am using a lot of Co2. Bucephalandra like fertilization by EI, growing quite fast. Some kind of Buce can give me 2-3 leaves per weeks, and few young seedling. I don't know why but I think that it growing also at night :/ I must shot a photo before and after night to compare.
I dont have hard algae now, I once had but i used mixture of citric acid (1 teaspoon citric acid per one glass of water (250ml), I keep in this solution (mixture) plants for half hour and algae died after several days). Bucephalandra it is a hard plants, it could be even few hours in this mixture, but other delicate plants don't like long bath

Last edited by vasteq; 01-08-2012 at 01:08 PM..
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:06 PM   #59
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Vasteq, thank you for the useful information you posted above. Do you use vinegar to mix the citric acid bath solution? I have a lemon tree in the yard, can I use lemon juice instead of citric acid? You mentioned using a lot of CO2, can you elaborate on the CO2 application? How about your substrate and source of water? I don't use a heater but the temperature in the house is around 70 degrees Fahrenheit in the winter and 78 degrees Fahrenheit in the summer; is that alright?
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Old 01-08-2012, 09:35 PM   #60
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Temp is ok. I heard that Bucephalandra don't like temp above 82.5 F, but i dont know is it true. At summer i had once temp 82F and all bucephalandra growing, but only one - KayuLapis1 lost leaves, but i dont know is it temp reason. But it still left a health root and Kayu has growing well right now.

Quote:
Do you use vinegar to mix the bath solution
no, i Use only water. I heard that vinegar is also good but i dont remember recipes for that mixture. This method is based mainly on creating an acidic solution, algae do not like low pH and die. Lemon juice is also good.

Quote:
can you elaborate on the CO2 application
- i dont understand it.

Quote:
How about your substrate and source of water?
- i dont use a special substrate. I have quartz stones - did not affect the parameters of water. All bucephalandra attached to pieces of lava or wood. Source of water? I do not remember the tap water parameters, and how many contain NO3 and PO4 but in the case of EI methods it does not matter. Other parameters of mixed water (RO water + tap water, 50/50% half and half) GH 13, KH 8. Czy to z przyczyny temp
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