eSHa protalon 707? Works or Waste?
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:07 AM   #1
Swan900
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eSHa protalon 707? Works or Waste?


I am starting to get a little bit of algae starting to grow on my gravel. Its also starting to crawl on my glass by small amounts (1-2mm) Also there is a small outbreak of Brown Algae (Diatoms) on some of my plants. Its a new tank and is just about to be finish being cycled.

I have heard some good news and some bad news on eSHa protalon 707. It claims it has no harm what so ever on plants, in fact it says it helps them. Is this true? How do they do it and what are your experinces with it? If not what Algal remedees do you use? Thanks!
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:47 AM   #2
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I don't believe in most algacides, but have never heard of this one.

That being said, diatoms are not like most algae and prob won't be effected by this. Also, they are common in new tanks and often just go away.
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Old 05-25-2010, 01:15 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by over_stocked View Post

That being said, diatoms are not like most algae and prob won't be effected by this. Also, they are common in new tanks and often just go away.
I have heard that in numerous places so fingers crossed it does with me. Just thought that the 707 will speed up the removal of it. Has anyone else used this product? Thanks!
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Old 05-25-2010, 03:47 PM   #4
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I can find no MSDS for that substance, and the manufacturer doesn't say what is in it, so I wouldn't even consider using it. If it were potent enough to actually get rid of algae it could easily be potent enough to harm you - that's why a MSDS is essential.

As far as I can see from the information on the websites I read, this stuff is also called "snake oil". The biggest clue to indicate that is the lack of any information about what chemicals are in it.
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Old 05-25-2010, 04:04 PM   #5
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Isn't this some Dennerle snake oil?
Few in the USA bother with this, nor can get it, the UKAPS folks will help you.

In general, all algcides are snake oil.
Stay away from them, focus on your real goal, growing plants.

Low/moderate light, good CO2, good sediment, good water column, good care, good current etc etc.

There are no short cuts there.
No magic, not miracles in a bottle, no things that will give some edge to "get over this hump". You waste your $$ and feed the snake oil industry preying on the desperate aquarist. I've been around and dealt with issue for a very long time. There is a basic lack of logic in the entire approach.

Better to spend your time cleaning and caring for the tank.

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Old 05-26-2010, 09:44 PM   #6
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I don't personally like using algaecides, nor have I tried it... but on several European forums I participate on, "Protalon" is the product of choice for eradicating algae. Assuming this is the same product, I believe it works regardless of not addressing the cause obviously. I have never heard of it harming any plants.

Much like H2O2, I guess one can use it in conjunction with addressing the cause to speed things up a little...

PS. The statement about it helping plants makes me wonder if this could be another Glutaraldehyde based product like Flourish Excel... Perhaps the smell may give it away.

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Old 05-28-2010, 04:51 PM   #7
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I participate on English/European forums more so too and they do advise it works. There are only rare cases where I have read it does not. But it doesnt seem to be so big in the states.
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Old 06-23-2010, 07:46 AM   #8
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Ok so I have decided to go and purchase some of this stuff for the good of everyone on here and some research. It comes with a chart and directions and FAQ bit on the leaflet. I will scan it in and post it here soon. Day one I added the recommended for a 64L in which is 32 drops of Falcon A. The water turned a green like gunge colour. I was worried becuase it looked like a colour that wasnt going to go away easily. But it did after 3 hours. Also after adding it yesturday afternoon I have noticed all the algae in the tank has got air bubbles attached to it, dont know what this means though? Keep you posted! Thanks!
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:58 AM   #9
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Snake oil is a derogatory term, used to refer to a treatment that is fake, fraudulent, or ineffective.

Algicides should be used sparingly or not at all, but not because they're snake oil. Most do in fact work. Therefore, I tend to question the judgement and motives of anyone who makes statements such as "all algicides are snake oil". They're either ignorant of the meaning; or deliberately misusing it because they believe their audience ignorant enough to be influenced by such statements instead of making correct decisions based on facts.

The issue is that every effective algicide has a risk of harming things other than algae. And it's usually a fine line between effectiveness and unintended harm.

Since the manufacturer has chosen not to say what's in Protalon, they deprive us of the opportunity to make informed decisions, and I personally don't find that acceptable.

And of course, it is always better to prevent a problem when possible, rather than treating it when it occurs.

Regardless, I'm interested to see the result of Swan900's trial.
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Old 06-23-2010, 01:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkCobra View Post
Regardless, I'm interested to see the result of Swan900's trial.
Thanks for the interest friend. Bellow is a picture of the front and back of the leaflet in which is comes with. Some interesting bits on there, alot we alredy knew though. Also I added the day 2 dosage as suggested. Its been about 3 hours now and the algae is starting to go a darker green/brown now, could be that its dying? Well theres the leaflet bellow for you all! Thanks!


Above is the front of the leaflet ^^^


Above it the rear of the leaflet.
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Old 06-23-2010, 06:10 PM   #11
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Have you, err.......tried focusing on plant growth, you know, the original goal and the reason why you had algae to begin with?

Algae does not occur to the point where it's trouble if the plants are growing well. Algicides distract the hobbyists from really learning how to do aquatic horticulture.

This will never change.
the only except to that rule is Excel, but it's because it is adding CO2 to the plants, not so much due to killing algae. Excel, copper, and a dozen other chemicals can easily kill algae selectively. Virtually all do not grow plants however.

It's a crutch, like a pill to fix your problem for the moment, which at the root, is not due to a lack of algicides, rather, a lack of focus and balance growing plants. Does a planted tank get algae due to a lack of eSHa protalon 707??

Probably not.
So why does a planted tank get algae?

What traits do most planted tanks that are algae free have?
Do you base a reference/control tank on a messed up tank with algae?
I don't. I also do not need any algicides of any sort to achieve any goal in any planted tanks, I never learned much from using them either.

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Old 06-24-2010, 08:42 AM   #12
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Well its just a little bit of research for that product to see if it does at least stop my algal bloom. Im not naive enough to think this will rid of it in my tank forever.
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Old 06-24-2010, 03:58 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swan900 View Post
Well its just a little bit of research for that product to see if it does at least stop my algal bloom. Im not naive enough to think this will rid of it in my tank forever.
So why bother in the first place?
I think we all try stuff like this out of desperation when we start in the hobby.
But desperate folks are the target group they market these products to.

Copper works also and has been used to selectively kill algae and not plants for well over 50+ years. The herbicide simazime also is effective.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simazine

Still, do you see me, or most any one that's been around for awhile suggesting algicides? Very few, unless they sell it, ever suggest these things.

Ponder why that might be.

I've been down this path, have been tempted, and used these types of products They never offered me any real help that say a blackout might, or a good CO2 level. The magic algicide in the bottle does not grow plants.

If not, do not add it.

Killing algae that is there is fairly easy and requires only some rather cheap things we all have available, eg H2O2 spot treatment, Excel etc.........Excel actually grows plants so it's an exception. Plants are not going anywhere/die etc nor is the algae going to be that much worse without these products either.

They cannot since these products kill algae and do not grow plants other than Excel, so they do not "help" plants. This is the issue, they do not target the root issue why you have algae issues in the first place. So they offer little more than a distraction and waste of $$ out of your wallet.

Some have suggested I'm not being open minded and that they have use, rubbish, I've messed with this stuff far longer than anyone on these forums.
I also know the mechanism of actions and physiology for the chemicals used, much like I know about aquatic herbicides from the academic side.

I do try to find ways to beat back algae and then help the plants get better, but the methods tend to be with things like light modification, blackouts, good post nutrients/CO2/light routines, good cleaning, current changes.

Basic horticulture focused on plants and aquarium keeping, not buying yet another miracle in the bottle for 9.99$. Will it get rid of the algae? Maybe. Maybe not. Will it help grow plants and solve the root, not likely. Do folks "in the know" suggest it? Nope. You might use it for a time, but I doubt you will thereafter.

"Why not? What do I have to lose?" that is the marketing and the niche they want to use to sell the product. So we see new ones come out year after year after year. Often with the same things added, just repackaged. Some have no basis at all, but most have copper (which is why they are green) or are triazine based.

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Tom Barr
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Old 06-24-2010, 04:06 PM   #14
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i have to admit, i am quite interested in how this works out, i personally would not use it in one of my planted tanks, but for my service accounts it could be quite helpful.
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Old 06-24-2010, 05:11 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F22 View Post
i have to admit, i am quite interested in how this works out, i personally would not use it in one of my planted tanks, but for my service accounts it could be quite helpful.
Would not Excel fall into that same group?

Or less light?

Then the tanks look much better than simply no algae........


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