|09-19-2004, 03:48 PM||#1|
Planted Tank Obsessed
Log of Cherry Shrimp Chat
Below is the log from the chat this past Wenesday. I cleaned it up a little but it still is pretty much in raw chat format.
<Momotaro> My, and some others have found CR do better in a larger aquarium
<Momotaro> A 10 should work, but they seem to really thrive and reproduce much better in a larger aquarium
<Shay> Congrat, Gnatster
<Momotaro> What type of plants Jumbo?
<gnatster> I am breeding cherries pretty darn successfully and am willing to share what I have learned, even thought it would kill my market in time
<Jumbotummy> rotala indica, dwarf hairgrass,
<Jumbotummy> I got a pic somewhere
<Momotaro> Sounds good Jumbo
<Momotaro> They love cover
<Momotaro> Baby tears, Riccia moss Java moss
<zapus> mine stay in the moss wall
<gnatster> I don't know about that Momo. the tank I use is 1/2 filled with java moss, yet I see them quite a bit on the bare open substrate
<Momotaro> I have found when they can get underneath something, they really feel safe
<Momotaro> When they feel safe , they really reproduce
<Jumbotummy> (Link: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...uff/Sept6C.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...uff/Sept6C.jpg
<Momotaro> I mean REALLY! Right Gnat
<gnatster> then again this is in a shrimp only tank
<Shay> How do they reproduce? Live?
<Momotaro> They are egg layers
<gnatster> Well the male and the female....
<Momotaro> The female will hold the eggs in her swimmerettes
<Momotaro> She fans them and moves them about her body
<gnatster> The female is fertilized when she molts
<Momotaro> Keeps them moving to prevent the eggs from dying
<Shay> I'm a little old for that talk but guess I had it coming
*** Signoff: Jumbotummy (Quit: Jumbotummy)
<Momotaro> * If you remember the post by John P about his shrimp that died...
<Momotaro> He pulled the eggs off of the dead shrimp
<gnatster> when she still has a soft shell the male mounts her, many males try and mate with a newly molted female
<Momotaro> Now, I havenít heard how they did, but I imagine they died because he couldn't move them and keep them alive like Mama shrimp
<gnatster> yeah I haven't seen any updates
<gnatster> but the female fans the eggs constantly
<Momotaro> I hope it worked, but I doubt it
<Momotaro> The eggs are big
<Momotaro> and Yellow
<gnatster> about 15-20 per brood
<zapus> Iíve heard of people putting cray eggs on a sponge filter
<Momotaro> The large eggs are what makes this shrimp so viable and prolific
<Momotaro> The large egg ensures the larvae develop rapidly
<gnatster> as they bear young that are mini shrimps, not planktonic larvae
<Momotaro> The shrimp exits the egg as a shrimp, unlike the Amanos
<gnatster> I'll shut up
<Momotaro> They are as gnat said a smaller shrimp
<Shay> Please don't
<Momotaro> LOL Gnat, I am a slow typist
<Jumbotummy> wow nice detailed description...
<Momotaro> Keep going dude
<gnatster> I have a pic lemme get it
<Shay> I'm learning a lot
<Momotaro> That is where a lot of cover comes in handy
<Momotaro> Go on Gnat
<zapus> long as it's not shrimpie porn
<gnatster> ohh sorry, looking for pic
<Momotaro> The infant shrimp hide in good thick plants
<Shay> Can they be kept with any type of fish? i.e. will angels eat them?
<Momotaro> Angels will more than likely gobble them up
<Shay> Adult or just young?
<Momotaro> When I trim my Riccia, all the tetras fly down to the bottom of the aquarium for a quick snack
<gnatster> Angels will thank you for the shrimp and come back asking for more
<gnatster> however it will color the angel up real nice
<Momotaro> I would think angels will eat 'em all,. young and old
<Momotaro> Heck, angels will eat neons, right?
<gnatster> Baby Shrimps, sorry for the bad pic, they are SMALL (Link: http://www.plantedtank.net/imageh/im...aby_Cherry.JPG)http://www.plantedtank.net/imageh/im...aby_Cherry.JPG
<Shay> Anything they can get in their greedy little mouths
<gnatster> substrate is eco complete so you have a size gauge
<Momotaro> Foreground plants like Riccia, Baby tears, Java moss help the babies hide from the hungry masses
<gnatster> Baby on sponge (Link: http://www.plantedtank.net/imageh/im...air_Babies.JPG)http://www.plantedtank.net/imageh/im...air_Babies.JPG
<Momotaro> They are tiny little guys!
<Momotaro> They need hiding places!
<gnatster> baby and 1 month old (Link: http://www.plantedtank.net/imageh/im...9/DSCN0609.JPG)http://www.plantedtank.net/imageh/im...9/DSCN0609.JPG
<Shay> Sorry, can't see pics
<Momotaro> Great shots Gnat!
<Jumbotummy> those are some Small shrimps
<gnatster> sorry Shay, and Thanks momo
<Fender963> Shay just double click on the link
<gnatster> Preg female (Link: http://www.plantedtank.net/imageh/im...avy_w_Eggs.JPG)http://www.plantedtank.net/imageh/im...avy_w_Eggs.JPG
<Momotaro> They are absolutely tiny Jumbotummy
<Shay> Thanks, Fender.
<Shay> Angels will definitely eat 'em
<gnatster> neons will eat them
<Momotaro> I would eat them! LOL!
<Shay> that's what my hubby said
<zapus> cherries on the barbie
<Momotaro> That is why you need cover for those little ones
<Fender963> np shay
<Momotaro> I don't think you can let them fend for themselves
<gnatster> Not to contradict the cover theory, but in a dedicated shrimpery, they wander about
<Momotaro> Provide cover, don't just let them hide
<zapus> feeding those little guys must be a pain
<gnatster> feeding is easy
<Momotaro> That is, if you want to successfully breed them
<Jumbotummy> what would u feed them?
<Momotaro> Very easy
<gnatster> everything and anything
<gnatster> and lots of it
<Momotaro> My words exactly!
<zapus> lots of water changes too?
<Momotaro> They love the left over food in my foreground plants
<Momotaro> Everything does well with a waterchange
<gnatster> shrimp pellets, spinach, mustard greens, sinking pellets of any type, algae wafers
<gnatster> ahh but water changes are tricky as the shrimp are so small
<Momotaro> I have found that the shrimp really love to comb over fine leaved plants
<Momotaro> If you have lots of babies, tie a bit of pantyhose over your siphon's intake
<gnatster> I use airline tubing and am very careful to hang in open water only
<Momotaro> I do that when I have Killie fry
<Momotaro> Airline for your shrimp only Gnat?
<gnatster> for the siphon
<gnatster> not setting any quick water change records there
<Momotaro> I use pantyhose on my planted communities when I see lots of baby shrimp
<gnatster> change about 4 gal of 20 every week
<Momotaro> Have you found your shrimp prefer certain plants Gnat?
*** Vinlo (Vinlo@IRChat-807E87C4.home.cgocable.net) has joined channel #theplantedtankchat
<gnatster> Java Moss
<Fender963> hey vinlo
<gnatster> they love java moss
<Vinlo> good show
<Vinlo> what'd I miss?
<Momotaro> Like I said earlier, they really seem to love fine leaved plants
<Momotaro> Blyxa japnica
<Momotaro> Cyperus helferi
<gnatster> I have about mass of java moss that takes up 1/2 a 20l and they love it in there
<Momotaro> hair grass
<gnatster> females with eggs tend to hide deep in it
<Momotaro> They love to spend their time combing finer leaved plants in search of an algal snack!
<gnatster> while the males cavort all over the tank
<Momotaro> Males are always cavorting
<Vinlo> gnat, what filter your have on that tank? just an HOB?
<gnatster> nah, a sponge filter
<Shay> so are females, momo
<Vinlo> air driven?
<Momotaro> LOL shay!
<gnatster> yes a small air drive filter
<Vinlo> pretty low tech I guess eh?
<Momotaro> There shouldn't be any problem running a canister filter with CRs
<gnatster> besides java moss there is duckweed (bah) and Riccia floating on the surface
<Momotaro> The ones that get sucked into the canister seem to do pretty darn well inside the filter
<gnatster> that is duckweed bah
<Vinlo> what light you have over the tank PC?
<Geo> I can only imagine how bad duckweed is if it's worse than salvania
<gnatster> till they meet the impeller that is
<Fender963> okay sorry guys i'm afraid i have to depart, enjoy the chat
<gnatster> shrimp mousse!!1
<gnatster> See ya
<Momotaro> CRS seem to survive just fine inside canister filters
<Momotaro> So long Kyle
<gnatster> 2 x 13w 6700K PC
<Vinlo> mike; how do you pick the small one out?
<Fender963> good night
*** Signoff: Fender963 (Quit: Fender963)
<Vinlo> of the filter that is
<Momotaro> I pull the shrimp out when I clean the canister
<Geo> *reads some of the chat backlog*
<gnatster> I have it all logged Geo
<Vinlo> geo, how?
<Momotaro> pull out the media, leave the water
<Geo> I scrolled up
<Momotaro> I then pour the water from the canister through a fish net and then into a bucket
<gnatster> Zapus, as chat moderator you are logging all this, correct?
<Geo> See I am keeping 6 cherry reds in a 7 gallon minibow right now
<zapus> i was just the first one here
<Geo> Throughout the entire summer ... not even a single egg
<Momotaro> Pick them carefully out of the net vin
*** amandahuggenkiss (amanda@IRChat-5908AB8C.vc.shawcable.net) has joined channel #theplantedtankchat
<Vinlo> whew.. sounds like fun.
<amandahuggenkiss> hey guys
<zapus> lo manda
<Vinlo> ahoy hoy
<Momotaro> It is tedious, but it pays dividends
<Momotaro> The hard part is picking shrimp out of the net
<Momotaro> and thats not that bad
<Vinlo> next time i clean the filter I will be more diligent, less lazy
<amandahuggenkiss> we talking shrimp in the filter?
<Momotaro> a little diligence will pay of in spades and CRS
<Vinlo> how long can they live outta the water?
<Momotaro> about as long as a fish
<gnatster> hmm, don't know, haven't tried to see
<Momotaro> although I have pulled the out of clippings
<Geo> Fish are rather amazing sometimes
<Vinlo> gnat, you have enough.. time it for us.. hehe JK
<Momotaro> as are CRS! LOL
<gnatster> no problem Vinlo, and that from ones you want ...right?
<Geo> Had a pygmy cory live for at least a half hour out of the water, under some wet driftwood that I picked out of the tank
<Vinlo> what about that crazy snakehead fish, it can travel from pond to pond
<Geo> think it was closer to hour and a half >_<
<Momotaro> i never though to leave a CRS out to see how long it would live! LOL
<Momotaro> How did we do?
<Momotaro> any questions?
<amandahuggenkiss> yeah, can you repeat everything I missed ;-)
<gnatster> Yea, got any Crystal Shrimp?
<Momotaro> That would be nice!
<Geo> Why aren't my shrimp breeding
<Shay> Still trying to decide if its worth trying to keep some
<Momotaro> I think it is, provided you don't have fish that are going to eat them
<Vinlo> Yeah, when is amanda going to send me some of those green shrimp heeh
<gnatster> amanda, pm me you email, I'll send a log
<Momotaro> They are very attractive, and downright fun to watch
<Geo> I think my betta will make a nice snack out of any babies he finds...
<amandahuggenkiss> thanks gnat - sounds like I missed some stuff
<Momotaro> Send one to Kyle too Gnat
<Shay> I have four angels in that tank - they won't last long
<amandahuggenkiss> vin, I'll hook you up as soon as I'm happy with how many I have
<gnatster> ok, should I edit the log and post it then?
<Vinlo> geo, could be the tank is too small. I have heard that of the shrimp. People having no luck with the smaller tanks
<Momotaro> I think he might to Geo, IF you don't give the babies a place to hide
<Vinlo> amanda, thanks! Hehe
<Geo> I am growing a lot more xmass moss
<Geo> But ... that smaller tank thing
<Geo> a Minibow ... could that be the reason ya think?
<Momotaro> We did touch base on tank size at the beginning
<gnatster> I can edit the log in the next couple of days and post it if yall like
<Shay> BTW, you guys did a great job. Thank you
<Momotaro> Good idea Gnat
<Vinlo> I just remember reading that someone had 2 tanks with shrimp, a 20 and 10g, no luck in the 10 and a fecundity of shrimp in the 20
<Geo> Momotaro, yea, I saw that
<Geo> Well, it's very interesting
<Momotaro> Thanks Shay...Thanks to gnat
<gnatster> I may have to experiment with that, I have a spare 10
<Geo> I was hoping to breed them for my LFS, so they could get some stock and start breeding them themselves
<Vinlo> I could be on crack though
<Geo> Well I've had mine since last spring
<Geo> and I've never even seen an egg
<Geo> One of mine is turning a darker color as well, very weird
<Momotaro> How many shrimp are you housing?
<Geo> dark grey
<gnatster> I have found that 99% of the lfs's don't want cherry shrimp as they sell slow and only to plant geeks, taking up space that could be used by faster moving fish
<Momotaro> Could you possibly have no males?
<Geo> I thought of that
<Vinlo> gnat; most places won't carry _any_ freshwater shrimp IME
<Momotaro> Or no females
<Geo> Do you have pics of either?
<Shay> Is there an ideal temp range for them?
<Geo> Don't the females differ by having a rounder bottom tail?
<Geo> and Gnatster: my LFS gets requests for them a lot
<Momotaro> it is believed the females are the really red ones
<gnatster> Alsop,if you buy cherries from a lfs chances are they are all female as they have more color and are culled by the exporter
<Momotaro> The males are not as bright or as colorful
<Geo> I got mine from AZgardens
<Geo> but not all of them had a deep red color to start out
<Vinlo> oh yeah, Mike, I picked up that external heater from the swap and shop.. neat little gadget
<gnatster> do they breed or import?
<amandahuggenkiss> azgardens website says the opposite - that the males are redder
<gnatster> azgardens is WRONG
<Momotaro> Temperature range 72-80F, hows that Shay?
<gnatster> all mu well colored shrimp have eggs at some point and the duller one have never had eggs
<Shay> Pretty easy to accommodate
<Geo> accept paypal, gnatster?
<Momotaro> very easy!
<amandahuggenkiss> Both my dark coloured and pale shrimp are carrying or developing eggs
<gnatster> amanda, how did the spinach do?
<Momotaro> The paler shrimp may still be a juvenile
<amandahuggenkiss> they LOVED it!
<amandahuggenkiss> Just picked up some of those hikari crab bits too
<gnatster> ahh pale ones that are developing eggs will turn a deeper red once the eggs are being carried
<gnatster> err pale ones
<amandahuggenkiss> I gotta get some boys
<amandahuggenkiss> is there any way to sex other than colour?
<gnatster> you can see the eggs develop in the thorax, it will start to turn yellow
<Momotaro> I believe there is, but you would need to get them under a magnifying glass or a microscope
<gnatster> spread the little legs?
* gnatster keeps his day job
<Momotaro> What else?
<Geo> I am at my tank right now
<Momotaro> What else?
<Geo> Ok interesting
<Geo> one of my shrimp
<Geo> there is a BRIGHT yellow spot under the carapace
<Momotaro> Developing eggs
<Geo> between the last 2 legs
<Geo> Those are, eh?
<gnatster> that would most likely be eggs devopling Geo
<amandahuggenkiss> looks like a little saddle
<Geo> I see a saddle
<gnatster> it will grow in size
<Geo> ... omg ... JOY!!!!!
<Momotaro> YES! Neat description!
<amandahuggenkiss> first time I saw it I thought it might be a deficiency of some sort
<amandahuggenkiss> what with my soft water & all
<gnatster> Lets see ..other observations....with very heave feeding they will grow from shrmplets to egg carrying in about 45 days
<gnatster> I have yet to determine the gestation period
<gnatster> and I have not seen how the eggs change as they develop
<Shay> Well, thanks for the education. I need to get to bed so I can support my growing planted tank habit tomorrow.
<Geo> I think I see another one with the same saddle
<Momotaro> The more you feed them, the more you will have. Kind of like Tribbles1 LOL!
<amandahuggenkiss> hard to tell unless you segregate the pregnant ones & observe
<Momotaro> Good night Shay
<Momotaro> Thanks for dropping in!
<amandahuggenkiss> see ya shay
<Geo> I have spare 2.5 gallon tanks
<Geo> think it would be wise to set one up w/a lot of java moss and put preg females there?
<amandahuggenkiss> isn't it tough to keep shrimp in such a small tank?
<gnatster> there is talk that smaller tanks are not good
<Jumbotummy> yea time to go
*** Signoff: Jumbotummy (Quit: Jumbotummy)
<Momotaro> 2.5 is small, but if the conditions are met?????
<Vinlo> can't you get a 10g at walmart for dirt cheap anyways?
<Geo> It's more about space
<Momotaro> I tried to get Mustapha to join us, but I contacted him too late
<Momotaro> maybe next time
<Vinlo> you don't have room for a 10g? Damn, you space is tight
<gnatster> there are also 2 shrimp forums, petshrimp.com and I have to look the other one up
<Momotaro> Should we consider a shrimp forum here?
<zapus> frank greco has a listserv as well
<amandahuggenkiss> there seem to be enough people with shrimp
<gnatster> the other is a yahoo group runn by frank of (Link: http://www.franksaquarium.com/)http://www.franksaquarium.com/
<Geo> time to feed the fish
<Momotaro> I will ask kyle tonight
<amandahuggenkiss> I never know whether I should post in fish or general
<Vinlo> What do you guys think would be the best way to setup a new shrimp tank (bare bones), what from an existing tank and let the filter run for a week before adding shrimps?
<Momotaro> I am never sure either
<Momotaro> From an existing tank
<Momotaro> I wouldn't want to cycle an aquarium with them
<gnatster> Vinlo, I took a bare 20L and set up with eco comeplete from my larger tank and spng filter that sat in sump of larger tank for a week
<Vinlo> I've been saving my java moss trimings for a couple weeks now.. just incase
<Vinlo> I could do the same with one of my canisters
<zapus> gotta be up in 6, guess i'd better crash
<gnatster> added jave moss and water from a water change os a bigger tank
<amandahuggenkiss> see ya zapus
<Vinlo> cya zapus
*** Signoff: zapus (Quit: )
*** Signoff: alias (Quit: alias)
<Vinlo> just need a light and a tank and I think I am set
<gnatster> then added 50 adult shrimp
<gnatster> and viola, shrimp breeder
<Vinlo> I can't add that many.. hehe.. just add 'em as I find 'em
<amandahuggenkiss> how many shrimp do you guys think you have in your tanks?
<Momotaro> Laurel, my LFS had P. gertrudae
<Vinlo> I don't even want to guess. But a lot more than I first thought I had
<gnatster> I counted over 100 1cm or smaller ones last night
<Geo> my LFS has them too ... gertrudes, that is
<amandahuggenkiss> Momo - did you get some?
<amandahuggenkiss> are they as pretty in person??
<Momotaro> I have to have about 200
<Geo> I have 7-8 shrimp in my tank
<Momotaro> No I didn't
<Momotaro> They didn't look sthat good in person
<Momotaro> they weren't displaying
<gnatster> and about 40 adults
<gnatster> I'm about to try and ship babies and see how it goes
<amandahuggenkiss> I've only got maybe 10-ish each of cherries & green
<gnatster> let me try again
<Momotaro> Thats not bad Laurel
<gnatster> I am about to try and ship babies and see how it goes
<Momotaro> you should have more CRS soon enough
<amandahuggenkiss> It's tough to count when they're hiding in the hairgrass & crypts!
<amandahuggenkiss> if I have any males, I should have some...
<Vinlo> damn gnat, that wasn't even close the first time
<gnatster> right, so I figure if I see about 100 on the bare substrate I can safely say there are 50 more in the moss
<Vinlo> probably more gnat
<gnatster> yeah, but I would rather under estimate
<amandahuggenkiss> what size tank, gnat?
<gnatster> 20 long
<amandahuggenkiss> holy crap!
<Vinlo> that is a lot of scrumps
<amandahuggenkiss> I can't even imagine that many in my 20
<Momotaro> I've got to get moving!
<amandahuggenkiss> awww, see ya mo
<Momotaro> I have to check the board and then get to bed
<gnatster> see ya, thanks for the info
<Vinlo> as do I, take it easy. Thanks all for the info. Happy Shrimping
<Momotaro> Thanks to you too Gnat
<Momotaro> Thanks for dropping in everyone!
<Momotaro> Happy shrimping!
|09-19-2004, 09:29 PM||#2|
Planted Tank VIP
Thanx for posting it Gnatster. What program irc program are you using?
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