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New Planted Tank Fish Problems

2K views 14 replies 6 participants last post by  eNdoubleU 
#1 ·
Hi, I started my new 29g tank and these are the specs:
29g, 18" high.
Flourite substrate, about 1.5" high. Playsand on top about 1" high.
3 Pieces of driftwood.
A few plants but I can only remember Westeria and Ludwigia. I can't find the list and I'll edit if I do.
Aquaclear Power Filter with 2 sponges and 1 biomax.
No CO2 system at the moment, waiting for parts to arrive on Sep. 15th.

I let the plants sit in the tank for a day before I added the fishes. The pH was already low at 6.8-7.0 but I gH below 4 dkh. I read that playsand can make your water softer and I assumed this is what happened.

The fishes
I bought three fishes, two Odessa Barb and a Blue Ram. The aquarium shop said the Blue Ram would be a risk but we wanted to try. It wasn't as good an idea as I see the Odessa Barb chasing my Ram around. One of the barbs died the first day after two hours in the tank. I believe it was sick. It had a slightly fat belly when we bought it and when I looked down at it while it was alive, one side was fatter than the other.

I also got 2 Blue Paradise from a couple that had an overcrowded 20 gallon. Their fishes were all doing great but they didn't want these two. One of them was injured from fighting each other and the injury seems to have gotten bigger.

I have had the fishes since the 6th and my Blue Ram isn't looking so good today =/ This morning I saw him going up and down the glass. From my previous experience, it means the fish wants to be away from this water. Now he is staying still in shaded areas which he has never done before.

Are they suffering from new tank syndrome? =( should I be worried too much? I don't want to give any medicine because the tank is cycling and it's planted. The pH also dropped to 6.6 this morning and water seems to have gotten below 2 dkh. Should I just let it run it's course?

I'm also feeding them every other day for now. Every fish eats viciously but I can't get the Ram to eat. He eats the flakes then spits them back out. I tried to give him freeze dried bloodworms, but the aggressive Blue Paradise always gets them before he even notices.

Thanks.

-NW
 
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#2 ·
Rams are not a good choice for cycling a tank. They aren't as sensitive as some people would have you believe, but they are definately more sensitive than your average fish. Most likely your uncycled tank is exposing your fish to ammonia and nitrite which irritates or burns (causing physical damage) their gills, and binds to their hemoglobin, reducing their ability to transport oxygen through their blood. The paradise fish is adapted to breathing from the atmosphere which may help some, but the ram is stuck breathing poisonous water. He's going to show signs of distress well before the other fish. I'm assuming you used a dechlorinator, or chloamine detoxifier if your water authority is using that chemical.

Are they suffering from new tank syndrome?
Yes. That is exactly what is happening.

The best way to start a tank would be to slowly add one or two fish at a time over several weeks so the bacteria population can adjust to the increasing bioload. Fishless cycling is also a great way if you are patient enough. Heavily planted tanks can process some ammonia without cycling, but the emphasis here is on heavily. A small biomass of plants doesn't absorb much ammonia very quickly.

You could try running some ammonia absorbing filter media, but I don't know how effective that really is as I've never used it. You can help the fish by doing large water changes daily to lower ammonia levels, but I would rehome the ram for now as I don't think he's gonna make it through the cycle judging by what is already going on. In a couple months when the tank is fully cycled the ram could be reintroduced safely.


I don't want to give any medicine because the tank is cycling and it's planted
Don't put medication in the tank. What would you be treating for?

I hope I don't sound overly harsh or negative. Trying to add too many fish too soon is something we've all done. Once you've cycled alot of tanks you kind of get a sense for what you can get away with, but if you're less experienced, it's better to do things slowly, and always stay on the side of caution.
 
#3 ·
But my ammonia levels always measure 0 with the test kit and nitrates levels measure less than 5 ppm. So you are saying there is ammonia in the water, but it's hurting the fish before it's absorbed by the plants and my test kit isn't picking it up?

The medication is for the blue paradise with the open wound. His wound seems to have gotten bigger since they are still fighting.

The tank isn't 70% plant as I wanted it to be, but about 25%
 
#4 ·
if you say the tank is still cycling but the ammonia is 0---then it means the nitrite(not nitrAte) level is >0 and probably high....maybe this is the issue...also part of new tank syndrome i think. the fishes gills trun a dark brown as opposed to bright red of ammonia poisioning and the fish become slow and lethargic and u will often see them resting on the bottom and not moving.

if you have another tank it may be a good idea to remove the fish till the tank is finished cycling. 25% plants will help, but probably wont be enough for the immediate addition of fish. another option is to do daily water changes of maybe 30% or even bi-weekly 50% till the cycle finishes.
 
#5 ·
The nitrite is also measuring 0. The gills are fleshy color? which means it's normal? inside the mouth is red and they are moving around quite normally i guess. The only one sitting at the bottom now is the injured Paradise and although he finds cover, the nipping Odessa Barb and the other Paradise finds him every once in a while.

The ammonia is 0, the nitrite is 0, the nitrate is going up. This is whats confusing me. There's no way it cycled this fast. It's only been a week with fishes in the tank.
 
#6 ·
I agree the tank likely couldn't cycle that fast, at least not with that much initial bioload. Also, if the plants have exhausted the ammonia and nitrite, they will consume the nitrate meaning that it should not be increasing. It's quite possible that there's a problem with your test kit. Eventually in a heavily planted tank, you'll likely be adding nitrate, as the plants will consume it at such a rate that your levels will hover around zero. I'm gonna call bad test kit if you can't detect any ammonia or nitrite in a freshly filled tank, but are getting nitrate readings.

Anyway, if I read your post correctly it sounds like your fish are doing better excpt for the beat up fish, so that is good. I've seen them squabble, but I've never known gouramis to fight that badly. Maybe you should rehome the injured one.
 
#7 ·
Yea, I had a gut feeling I had a bad one =/ I'm going to visit the LFS.. which is quite a drive away and have them check the water. I'm trying to rehome it and this is when I wished I had a hospital tank.

On a side note, I'm keeping a journal of my tank here: http://endoubleu.tumblr.com/ I rigged my own version of the co2 system until my powerhead arrives and the diffusion rate at best, I'd say is 30% =/ but the morning after I put it in, I started seeing pearling =D very happy about that.

But not happy about NY Water. It's crap for aquarists. It's super soft out of the tap. So I'm going to add baking soda very slowly to get it to at least 6 dkh for now. When I visit my LFS I'll buy some crushed coral and add it to the filter media.
 
#9 ·
mmhmm. But the store I bought it from (petland.. curse you petland), the box looked different from the one I saw online. When I asked, the salesman said it was a slightly older version.. when API was called Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, inc. and hasn't abbreviated into API yet. I checked online and it was true.

The kit worked when I first started my non-planted last September. My fishes thrived when the water levels were good. So I assumed it worked. But lately the ammonia reading, which starts at yellow, went to orange-ish, which is strange because it should only get greener. There isn't a negative ammonia value. The pH still seems to work and the Nitrite and Nitrate always gives me the same results no matter what I have in there.

As I said in my journal, I had feeders in the tank before I planted it and even at Day 1 with them, it gave me the same results, except with ammonia and pH.

So I think those two, if not the whole thing went bad. Luckily I bought a pH tester recently and I'll use it until I get another kit.
 
#11 ·
Thanks for the info Lynda. The Lot # for Nitrate solutions is 18C0506 -_- ..This explains everything. The manufacturing date for pH is 04/09 which explains why it's still working. I should sue Petland because they sold it to me on the last year possible of it working. Is there a better brand for testing water?

Also EI dosing is giving me a headache >.< but I will understand it.

And since it's only been a week and cycling, I shouldn't do any water changes for a month? or 20% after two weeks? I mean, if I understand right, then I can do a water change in a planted tank anytime and still have the plants to eat up the waste. So aside from the kH and pH changing, which I can calculate to put into the water before I add it to the tank, are there any advantages to changing water?
 
#12 ·
Yes, water changes are beneficial to fish is the bottom line really when it comes to water changes. There's no other way to remove wastes from a closed system than through water changes. Live plants will absorb SOME waste products, but not all of them.

And you need to rehome both of those paradise fish into separate tanks. Paradise fish are best kept singly in species-only tanks. Once one of them finally kills the other, it's most likely going to start in on the other fish in the tank.
 
#13 ·
Can you elaborate on species-only tank? is it a tank with shrimps, or other inverts but the only fish occupying the top-mid and non-algae eating is the Paradise?

It would also make sense that I took him from a densely populated tank. They were fighting in it but not as much as they do in my tank since I only have 4 as oppose to 12 from the tank he came from. It wouldn't help if he had more tank mates? He'd start on them eventually? I can't add fish at this early stage of cycling anyway..
 
#14 ·
Species-only tank for a Paradise fish usually means the single Paradise fish and no other fish or tankmates, except possibly some snails.

Males are notoriously aggressive once they reach sexual maturity, and typically will kill any and all tankmates.

Any individual fish may prove to be the "exception" and tolerate a tankmate or two- but it's something to approach with caution. I definitely wouldn't recommend most species of Paradise fish as good fish for community tanks. There are a few of the dwarf species that reportedly can be kept in community tanks, but they are not commonly found in the hobby.
 
#15 · (Edited)
=/ I have to seriously think about this. I can afford a 10g but I don't have space in my house to keep it. Anyway, I have another large problem now. I keep my lights on about 10 hours a day and I see photosynthesis happening on all my plants. But I have green and brown spots and upon closer inspection, i conclude it's green spot algae on my glass. I also have some staghorn algae which I am removing by hand and green algae on my driftwood.

I still have to get a good test kit or go to a LFS. It's only a week in and it'd be too risky to add otoclinus, which is what I was thinking of for my algae cleaners. But if the paradise is going to be this aggressive.. Is there any other solution to removing this algae? I read that removing spot algae can be done by adding phosphate. I still haven't gotten to reading about EI dosing.

Edit: And one more question, can I add more plants during cycling? My tank is, as I posted, at best 25% =/ if I can plant it while cycling, the new, faster growing plants such as Vallisneria spiralis could help absorb the ammonia, which I still have to test for.

2nd Edit: So should I do a water change during cycling =S ?

3rd Edit: I have bacterial bloom =/ I see many solutions online including: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYcOjfR0fZU which I am reluctant to do as I want to avoid using chemicals. We have horrible water in NY and doing large amount of water changes means getting the dkh right of every bucket and pouring it in. I am thinking about getting hornwort to start with. Any other solutions? =/
 
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