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PH problems

11K views 88 replies 7 participants last post by  Molly 
#1 ·
:roll: I am still trying to get my planted tank up to snuff, 3rd time on cycling now, main problem is my ph drops off the chart after a few days. I have 100% Flowrite substrate. I have done experiments in separate water samples, one with just tap water, one with tap water + the chlorine /chloramine remover/ and one with the chlorine / chloramine remover + ACE to remove chloramine ammonia. Stayed at around 7.2, in the cups. But in the tank with no fish and few plants it just drops off. KH is 3.0 GH is 2.0 is there a problem with buffering capacity of the water? If so what can I do, I've tried PH levelers. Should I use purified water? If anyone can help I would appreciate it. thanks
 
#3 ·
Molly,

I am using my first planted tank here but....

I have kept marine tanks for many many years....

"If so what can I do, I've tried PH levelers. "

AVOID pH levelers and adjusters...I have found that they are more trouble than they are worth.

Agree wholeheartedly with Rex on this pt.

Mike :D
 
#4 ·
:roll: Hi Rex & Guttboy:

I'm not using C02 injection, and have also come to the conclusion that the ph adjusters are a waste of time.

I suspect my problem is that the water has very little buffering capacity. I've read that crushed coral or a piece of limestone might help. What would be your best suggestion?

I really appreeciate your help!

Molly
 
#5 ·
Molly,

Now we are in my realm....CORAL!!!...heheh seriously though crushed coral has a decent buffering capacity. I used coral sand in ALL but one of my reef tanks with tremendous success. I have never tried limestone though.

What are your water parameters out of the tap???

The reason I ask is that your water parameters might change when they are in your tank...not sure what you are adding.

By knowing your TAP water (aka water you are adding straight to the tank) you can use that as a basis for starting to adjust the levels (pH, KH, GH).

Mike :D
 
#6 ·
:roll:
Hi Mike:

Out of the tap the ph is 7.2, kh 3 and gh 2, I use start right to remove chlorine and cloramine and ACE to remove ammonia thats in the tap water and stress zyme to add the little bio germy guys.

Thanks,

Molly
 
#7 ·
Hmmmmmmm,

Ok if you say that your pH "drops off the chart" are you saying that it is getting lower as in more acidic?

I would think that the plants would be using up the CO2 and thus causing your pH to rise slightly...just a guess.

What is in your tank exactly???? Have you put any driftwood in there that might be leaching tannic acid into the water??? Any rocks that might not be "benign" so to speak...aka not leaching anything into the tank.

With all things being equal....your pH should not be dropping off the chart like that unless there is a cause....be patient we will be able to figure it out.

In your next post...be very specific as to what is in the tank. How big? What plants? (size, number and health) Lighting? pH at night and in day? Same for GH and KH of tank. Type of substrate? how much? Any inhabitants (fish, frog, hippo...LOL)? Driftwood? Rocks?

This way the others can really help on whats going on. Rex is really good at this stuff by the way.

Mike :D
 
#8 ·
:help:

Hi Mike:

It's just a 10 gallon tank. I hope to have a bigger one, but am gun shy for now because I don't want the same problem, just to a magnified proportion :). For now since I am cycling again, not much in the way of plants, a few bulbs is all. I do have a piece of driftwood in the tank, and tried removing it, with no help. Even tried putting it in a separate tub of water and tested everyday, it didn't seem to affect the ph. The substrate is flourite, and I have a few I think they are called egg rocks (white and rounded looking). The light is a regular grow light. For now there are no fish, but I would like to have Neons. I haven't tried testing both morning and evening, just in the evenings, I can if would be of some help.

I sure appreciate your taking time to help me figure this out!

Molly
 
#9 ·
No worries molly...

Now...how much does the pH swing...? you stated it went low? could it be the test was wrong? Were you using a high range pH test and it just dropped a bit below the bottom limit? My high range goes from 7.4 to 8.8...I have another that is 6.0 to 7.6....Just a thought.

Mike :D
 
#11 ·
Well we eliminated that theory! :bounce:

Now then...There HAS to be something in the tank that is causing the water pH to change. How long from the time you put the water in on a change does the pH drop?

I dont think the start rite would be affecting the pH but try a sample with a cup and see once you have put all the additives in it as it would be right before you add it to the tank? Monitor it....this will ensure that those chemicals are not the culprit.

Right now I think it might be that your water has a poor buffering capability but that is just a guess.

I am going over to Roger Miller's house in a couple of hours. Hes a moderator on another board and a hydrogeologist. i will have him take a look at this and see what he thinks as well!!! :D

Mike
 
#13 ·
Mike thats what she's indicating.

Molly...just got back from Roger Miller's house..he has awesome tanks! What he stated is that there is SOMETHING in your tank that is causing this pH drop.

1) Could be that you are feeding the tank too much and something with the nitrogen cycle could be causing this.....oops read down no fish so I think you are not feeding it...

2) Is there any decay in the water from plants etc...?

3) Substrate?

But what he stated is that your pH wont just drop like that.

Will keep researching....

Mike :D
 
#15 ·
There has to be something in the tank causing this. Peat or something like that. Even though the water is soft it would take a lot to crash the pH that far. I doubt it would be the rocks. There are a few minerals that could leach acids but I doubt anything as strong as it would take to crash the pH that far.
 
#16 ·
Rex I have to agree with you on that one...

Molly how long does it take the pH to crash?

Mike
 
#17 ·
:help:

Hi Everyone:

Gee I really appreciate your help! Right now I'm in midst of cycling again, I took all of the water out cleaned the rock completely and put them back in last week. the substrate is Flourite, I have a piece of driftwood I took out thinking it was to blame but made no difference. I have some rocks that are I beleive called egg rocks white and smooth as if in a river bed I use or would like to as planters in the tank, they are "glued" together with aquarium sylicone. That has been aged for over a year now.

One other note, I checked the kh and gh again today, now gh is up to 6 but kh is 1. p is still at 6.0.

To give myself to satisfaction I went to the pet store today and bout a few plants (unknown) looks like a houseplant spider plant and water wisteria with red coloration. Also got some coral sand and put a handful in.

Of course, the folks at the pet store are just as confused with my problems, but I have no really good pet stores within 30 miles so I am dependent on Petsmart ond Petco employees. The guy at Petco suggested I use RO water, said he had heard "horror" stories from folks from Mansfield, and I am on the Arlington Mansfield border.

It's kinda sad when you walk into a pet store and all the fish don black bands on their little fins :-(
 
#18 ·
:cry:

Molly sorry to hear that! I just cant see water dropping that fast in pH....how long does it take again. THERE HAS to be something in the tank that is causing this...pH just does not drop that fast....again let us know how long it is taking to crash to 6.0 and below.

Mike
 
#20 ·
Wow....that is amazing.....and your tap water (treated with your chlorine remover) stays the same, doesnt crash?

BTW...check out the new pics I posted under the photo album....I have just put some plants and fish in the tank...its under Mikes new 100 gallon!

Let me know what you think...you will be the first to see it!


Mike :D
 
#21 ·
Too freaky! What is that acidic.
I would take the egg rocks out, and take the wood out. I would really try to figure out what is causing the pH drop before I added plants, crushed coral, anything.
See if the pH crashes in your aquarium filled with water and Flourite only. Put some tap water out in a couple of bowls. Add your dechlorinator to one bowl, and don't treat the other. See what happens. I would then spend a couple of dollars and try filling the aquarium with those one gallon jugs of spring water. They are about 70 cents apiece. See if the pH still crashes.
You need to be slow and scientific. Do one thing at a time. Keep track (notes?) on what you are doing. You really need to solve the pH crashing problem before you go any further. It's a pain, but in the long run you will have a successful aquarium that will give you a lot of enjoyment.

Mike
 
#22 ·
Mike,

I agree with you 100%. You have to be methodical to rule out certain things.

Molly: Be patient...between all of us here and you keeping notes we will figure this out!!!!


Mike :D
 
#23 ·
:help:

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate this! Actually I did try testing the water in separate bowls, one just plain tap water, the next with the Start Right chlorine/cloramine remover, one with Start Right and Ace (cloramine amonia remover), and one the driftwood, Start right and ACE, left them for 5 days and the ph stayed level. Thats when I decided to do a 100% water change, cleaned the rocks and start over with new filter medium (sponge). I hadn't thought of the egg rocks as a possible culprit, good idea!

I think I'll repeat my tests, but in addition to the above do 2 more bowls, one with flourite, and one with the egg rock. This now brings me to another question. Since flourite is porous could it be possible that it has become contaminated by something along the way, and perhaps should be tossed out and replaced?

Thanks again,

Molly
 
#24 ·
Molly,

Without going that far...do your tests and see how they come out...just ensure that you have alot of flourite in that bowl....also how much circulation are you running?

Flourite could harbor something but I seriously DOUBT that it is causing the overnight crash.

Remember take notes...be methodical....


Mike :D
 
#25 ·
:roll:
Hi Mike:

I went downstairs to try to read the numbers on the filter, but no luck, it's an Aqua Clear filter intended for a 20 gal tank, I keep it a full force, along with an air pump connected to 2 airstones that are below the substrate.
 
#26 ·
Hi Molly sorry it took so long to get back but the swamp cooler pump bit the big one and had to replace it...that did allow my tank to get a bit warmer and WHAMO...pearling plants!

I remember from my chemistry days that by blowing in a cup of water through a tube you can change the pH drastically. This is the same principle a CO2 system works on...you know making carbonic acid...yada yada yada...

Anyhow...I dont think this is the case but perhaps all the bubbles may be having an effect on your pH....Unless CO2 was going in there I dont know what could cause the acidity to increase (pH crash).

Mike :D
 
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