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Opening Dose of Excel not looking too good

3K views 30 replies 10 participants last post by  Seattle_Aquarist 
#1 ·
Tank question

Made my first seachem excel purchase and I did as the bottle requested. Start with a water change then dose accordingly. I did so and in less than 24 hours I have a very cloudy tank and almost all of my fish are hanging around on top of the tank.

I've read that excel can mess with oxygen which would result in my fish hanging up top. But what's with the cloud? I'll always have a mild cloud a day after a normal water change, but I've never seen it this heavy.
 
#2 ·
What's the volume of your tank and how much Excel did you dose?

If I remember correctly, you live in my area and we have nightmarishly unpredictable water. There's been an algal bloom in the Ohio River in our area the past couple days that's been causing some problems, as well. So it could definitely be a water issue.

Have you tested parameters?
 
#3 ·
Hi ANTIplastic,

Assuming you dosed per the instructions it sounds like you may have had a substantial amount of algae in the tank. Excel, along with providing carbon molecules, has algacide properties. It is likely that a lot of algae is dying off and decomposing making the water cloudy and using up oxygen. Increase your filtration, add an airstone to increase circulation, and watch your fish. With good filtration the water should clear in a day or two. The good news, you have probably killed off a lot of algae.
 
#4 ·
If that is so, you have killed a lot of algae, I would do a big water change.
That much matter dying all at once can add too much nitrogen to the tank, the ammonia and nitrite removing bacteria cannot keep up.

Fish piping: I would do a water change.

If the posts above are right, and your tap water comes pre-loaded with algae, I would not dose the high initial dose of Excel. Just do the regular dosing.
 
#9 ·
I've had some issues with the "initial dose", and I'm not alone. I'd stick with the regular daily dose of (I think) 1mL/10g. I've used twice that dose daily for a week for algal combat, but more than that tends to make my plants unhappy. No noticeable fish protests, though.
 
#10 ·
Alrighty. I did a 25% water change and its looking clearer. The fish are now swimming in their normal routines and they have left hanging out on the top searching for air.

When I did the water change I did a dose of prime and turned on my powerhead. To be honest-not a fan of the power head. It stirs the water up way too much but if it's recommened to help with the water I'll do it. Question is, how long should I do it? Also, when can I dose with Flourish and Prime again?
 
#11 ·
Glad the fish are feeling better. If you are going to be watching the tank go ahead and take the powerhead out, you can turn it back on if you see the fish going to the surface again.

Prime is only dosed with new water that has chlorine or chloramine in it. It can affect oxygen level too and tap water itself can be low in oxygen. I always aerate replacement water at water change time now after a couple times the fish were uncomfortable after water changes.

Dose the Flourish as directed. It helps the plants grow and doesn't change how algae grows, algae can always find nutrients.
 
#12 ·
I know people who use Prime to cut down on ammonia spikes (fish that may have died and they didn't catch and so forth). Of course, its only a short term solution.

Also remember that Excel requires the light on after dosing.

Using Prime, adding an airstone/powerhead to introduce O2 through agitation and water changes are good temporary measures. That should knock out the cloud.

I haven't used Excel too much but is there a reason for the first dose being heavy?
 
#13 ·
I know people who use Prime to cut down on ammonia spikes (fish that may have died and they didn't catch and so forth). Of course, its only a short term solution.

Also remember that Excel requires the light on after dosing.

Using Prime, adding an airstone/powerhead to introduce O2 through agitation and water changes are good temporary measures. That should knock out the cloud.

I haven't used Excel too much but is there a reason for the first dose being heavy?

Not to sound like such a sheep-but no. It doesn't say why there should be such a heavy opening dose. Nothing that caught my attention anyways.
 
#15 ·
An Update

Okay. So I've lost one fish and the tank isn't getting better. It's not getting worse, but it's not getting better. I'm running the powerhead at the moment and I've done a 25 percent water change. Upon the initial water change the fish seemed happier and the tank got clearer. Now it's back to where it began.
 

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#16 ·
Hi ANTIplastic,

If it has been over 24 hours the Excel has worn off.

It looks like you have a lot of dissolved organics (tannins) in that tank. How long has that wood been in your tank?
 
#18 ·
As I've been dealing with this it's crossed my mind that in some ways its as if I started a new cycle on my tank. I say this because I switched out my light bulbs. I had a simple T8 full spectrum then I changed it to a T8 Floramax bulb to help my plants. Then I switched out both of my filter sponges as I do once a month, then of course I added a dose of Excel. This was all done in one day and ever since then I have had this white cloud.
 
#19 ·
You replaced all of the filter sponges in your filter? The beneficial bacteria takes home in those filters, so if you remove them, it would cause another cycle I believe. When I had a white cloudiness to my tank, it was the bacterial bloom establishing the cycle. If your filter has two sponges, I would replace one only and leave the other one. But even at that point, it would only be necessary if the filter sponge is extremely clogged with detritus that replacing it would be required. Most of the time, just a squeeze and a rinse in tank water or water that has been dechlorinated would suffice.
 
#22 ·
When you say "switched out", do you mean you cleaned them, or literally swapped the old sponges for new ones?

I have several HOB's mostly AC's, and a canister, and I probably keep the same sponges for a year. Filter floss tends to break apart sooner, so I replace that stuff maybe every 6 months. Once a month, a few squeezes, sit for a few minutes, and a couple swooshes, all in tank water, and I'm good to go (except for the one prefilter I use on an AC70 - that gets squeezed in running tapwater as many times as it takes to get clear water ...and those only last a few months due to this abuse).
 
#24 ·
Sorry if I state the obvious to anyone, but the aquaclear 30 comes with a three part system. From bottom to top it goes Foam, the carbon bag, and the Bio Max bag. I understood it to be that you rotate out every month the foam filter (which are the ones I replaced) and the other two you keep going. I guess I was way off?
 
#25 ·
If the carbon bag has been in there more than a month or two, it's no longer chemical filtration (which is generally totally unnecessary except in very specific, short-term circumstances, IMO). Instead, it's simply biological filtration, and does the same job as the BioMax.

I'm a fan of strictly mech filtration, and therefore don't use bio-balls, rings, or any other high-surface-area bio media at all in any of my HOB's or can (mech media dual-purposes as bio media). Many disagree, and use a combo of mech and bio. Fairly few, however, run chem media 24/7.

You can set your filter up however you like, and it will probably do its job just fine. However, replacing the mech media monthly is a waste of both beneficial bacteria and perfectly functional mech media.

If your problem stems from a mini-cycle, this may be the root of, and solution to, your problem.
 
#30 ·
This has mos def been a learning experience for me. Thanks for everyones help and restraining as best you could in saying "YOU ARE A DUMMIE".

I feel like I've hit a bit of a reset button on my tank and that's fine as long as I can progress from the mistakes.

As of right now I've taken out all of the driftwood I collected myself. I'm just going to buy some spiderwood I saw at a local pet shop and stay with that for awhile. I just received a C02 diffuser in the mail so I'm going to work on a DIY system and just back off the Excel and maybe just dose some Flourish twice a week.

Thanks again for everyones help/advice.
 
#31 ·
Hi ANTIplastic,

It is a fairly common mistake - changing out all of the filter media at once. The other common problem is rinsing filter media with tap water in the sink thereby killing all the beneficial bacteria in the chlorinated water.

In my Aquaclear filters I only run two sponges. Once a month when doing my weekly water change I rinse them in some of the tank water I siphoned out. When I need to replace sponges (about every 2 years) I only replace one per month.
 
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