The Planted Tank Forum banner

40 breeder tank renovation-(new pics 05/01/12, pg 5)

12K views 75 replies 18 participants last post by  2in10 
#1 · (Edited)
My husband and I have had a planted tank for three years. Well, it's mostly been his tank, I've just been playing the role of backseat aquascaper, CO2 delivery person, and algae critic. Lately, I've grown more interested in the details of running a planted tank. I just started Grad School, so I'm home staring at the tank a lot more now. I'm really interested in learning more about the art and science of the planted tank. To that end I'm in the process of trying some new ideas out on the tank because, like all wives everywhere, I'm sure my way is better.

Our Current Specs are:

40 gallon breeder tank
Lights: 2x 39 T5HO 7hr/day
CO2: pressurized CO2, gla atomic inline diffuser, on 3 hr before the lights & off 2 hr before the lights go off, drop checker
Filter: Eheim 2217 and 2 powerheards. Airstone at night
Fertilizer: EI dosing 50% water changes per week, flourish excel 10ml/day
Heater: hydor inline heater 78 degrees
Substrate: ecocomplete

Over the last few years, we've played around with different plants, equipment, and techniques. Now that we are finally feeling like we are starting to get a grip on the basics, we are ready to try to execute a real Aquascape. I've spent a lot of time looking at different scapes on the internet. In the end, I decided that I want to attempt to evoke something reminiscent of a rocky hillside here in the lush Pacific Northwest.

Our Tank before the renovation (and before we ditched 1/2 the plants due to a BBA attack):


Building my first aquascape:


Step 1: remove all the plants that don’t fit into the plan and give them away. This was hard because my husband was attached to many of our plants. We left some stem plants that don’t really fit with the end vision in to fill in the gaps until we get more plants.

Step 2: find some rocks—We went to the local landscape supply store and picked through their left-overs. They charged us $1.60 for the rocks.

Step 3: find some plants—My main goal was to go for small plants that would be in keeping with the scale of my hillside.

Ordered online from a commercial vender:

-Dwarf Hair grass—regular hairgrass grows well in our tank, so why not scale down
-HC cuba --I’ve bee lusting after a carpet of HC for years!
-Glossostima elatinoides- nice and small
-Hygrophila pinnatifida (this was not part of the plan, my husband snuck it in!)

Bought from the LFS:
-Downoi (reminds me of the native sword ferns that grow here in the PNW)

Step 4: Build that hill and plant those plants!

Step 5: Enjoy!



To be continued...

EDIT: Swapped incorrect pictures for the correct ones...
 
See less See more
2
#30 ·
Tanks is coming along nicely!!!

You did a great job on the glosso to! I can't wait to see it fill in even more!

BBA is the bane of my existence!!! I have had it in every one of my planted tanks, and it can be a BEAR!!! I get so P.O.ed when some people can just up their co2 a bit and it goes away! So far in my 55g I have been able to contain it to just the gravel, but the more I pull out the more I wind up seeing elsewhere! All I know is to keep on top of it, and most people succeed in overcoming it!

Good Luck with it, and keep up the AWESOME WORK on the Journal!
Drew
 
#31 · (Edited)
Thanks Orchidman, Cableguy, and BoxerBoyDrew! :proud:

BBA is the bane of my existence!!! I have had it in every one of my planted tanks, and it can be a BEAR!!! I get so P.O.ed when some people can just up their co2 a bit and it goes away! So far in my 55g I have been able to contain it to just the gravel, but the more I pull out the more I wind up seeing elsewhere! All I know is to keep on top of it, and most people succeed in overcoming it!
Most people succeed in overcoming BBA, really??? What are these people, magicians?. BBA is like quack grass--you can dig it out, poison it, burn it with a torch, smother it with cover crops, then declare victory--but look away for a few weeks, and BAM: you are right back where you started! My hatred of BBA is only surpassed by my hatred of quack grass! Last time we had a major outbreak of BBA, we had to pull out most of the plants and start over (that's what brought about this radical rescape!).

Additionally, if the tank gets algified again, I won't be able to brag to my husband about my superiority in planted tanking!

But hey, at least there is hope! If other people have magical algae-fighting super-powers maybe I can too. All I need to do is balance my CO2, light, oxygen, biomass, fertilizers, water parameters, bacterial flora, flow, filtration, substrate nutrients, sunlight through the window, fish load, temperature, and plant growth habits. Thats all. No biggy...
 
#33 ·
Tweaking things and posting about it :fish:

Here's a look at the green spot and BBA on one of my anubias located near the top of the hill.



I decided to reduce the light just on the right side of the tank where the hill is. I did this by taping a sheet of window screen onto the inside of the splash guard of the light fixture. I only applied screen to part of the light that is above the hill.



Based on what I read in Hoppy's post (below), I believe that this will result in the elevated area being in high light rather than crazy high light.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/114756-window-screen-light-filter.html

I'm not sure if light is the only cause of my problem. I've changed a lot of things in a short period of time. I know I should wait a week or two between changes in order to be able to evaluate the effects of each change, but I'm too impatient. Maybe tomorrow, when I'm older, I'll learn some restraint!

Little tank update:

All the crypts have melted. Depressing. I'm hoping that it's just temporary.

I also put a screen over the little tank's light--2 T5HOs seems like too much light without CO2. Yesterday, I got 5 Pristella Tetras for cycling the little tank. I know is probably too soon, but I just couldn't resist. I filled the tank with 75% water from the big tank and 25% tap water. Today the test strip showed:

ammonia was 0.5
nitrite was 2
Nitrate 20

I changed 70% of the water, improved the surface agitation, added another stem of willow hygro, and raised the temp to 82. It's not too hard to change water, so I'll just keep doing it as needed.

TTFN
 
#34 ·
Here's a look at the green spot and BBA on one of my anubias located near the top of the hill.


I decided to reduce the light just on the right side of the tank where the hill is. I did this by taping a sheet of window screen onto the inside of the splash guard of the light fixture. I only applied screen to part of the light that is above the hill.


Based on what I read in Hoppy's post (below), I believe that this will result in the elevated area being in high light rather than crazy high light.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/114756-window-screen-light-filter.html

I'm not sure if light is the only cause of my problem. I've changed a lot of things in a short period of time. I know I should wait a week or two between changes in order to be able to evaluate the effects of each change, but I'm too impatient. Maybe tomorrow, when I'm older, I'll learn some restraint!

Little tank update:

All the crypts have melted. Depressing. I'm hoping that it's just temporary.

I also put a screen over the little tank's light--2 T5HOs seems like too much light without CO2. Yesterday, I got 5 Pristella Tetras for cycling the little tank. I know is probably too soon, but I just couldn't resist. I filled the tank with 75% water from the big tank and 25% tap water. Today the test strip showed:

ammonia was 0.5
nitrite was 2
Nitrate 20

I changed 70% of the water, improved the surface agitation, added another stem of willow hygro, and raised the temp to 82. It's not too hard to change water, so I'll just keep doing it as needed.

TTFN
Now the algae makes sense. Anubias is an algae magnet due to its slow growth. You may still have something out of whack, but don't mess with anything until you see how the light will effect it. And I think you are right about the elevated area. The screen may be the solution. Kind of makes sense.

As for the little tank, one T5HO is too much without CO2. That will quickly become an algae factory if not babied. Do you plan on any CO2 for that tank? And adding a bunch of stem plants may keep it at bay until you get the plants you want in there. Then you can take out the stems and sell them or trade them.

As for the crypts, give them some time. If they don't start coming back, then worry, but not yet. They could just be going through Crypt melt.
 
#37 ·
I've been making progress! Here's how things look today




I moved the hairgrass to the sides of the tank. Planted H.G. At the top of the hill and rotala macrandra on the lower part of the hill. I thinned out the Willow Hygro because it was going nuts. The glosso and the staurogyne are growing in well. The moss is also really taking off.

Here's one of our berried shrimp:




Here's the bba situation. It's not terrible, but I don't like any BBA in my tank. I think the reduced light is helping.




Here's an experiment I'm conducting. I sprayed this annubia with a 1:4 water & excel solution and let it sit for approximately 5 min before returning it to the tank. I'll post pictures of my progress.




I'm pleased with my scape but it's still not finished. I'm going to let things grow in for a bit before I change things too much.

:icon_ques I appreciate feedback and ideas for how I could improve!

Thanks for reading. :fish:

TTFN
 
#39 ·
Great looking tank. I find that you don't even need to spot treat the bba with excel and that you can just overdose excel directly into the tank and the bba will turn red and die off in a few days. Take it easy at first though to see how your other inhabitants react to the excel overdose.
 
#43 ·
Yay! I just figured out how to quote two separate posts in one reply! It's a brave new world. :icon_idea

Here goes:



I'm not too worried about the paper clips. I don't plan to have them in there for too much longer and they haven't rusted yet. Even if they do, rust seems pretty innocuous, it's just iron oxide. Plants like iron, right?

I started out using bamboo skewers. I turned to paperclips because I was having trouble cutting the skewers and the thread that I was going to use to tie the plants to the skewers go all tangled up. Next time I have to use stakes, I plan to give bamboo skewers or toothpicks another go. If I do, I'll document it here for posterity. :wink:

This is a really great looking tank. I'm eager to hear what you think about the screen. I've been thinking of trying to cut back on my own light.

I've had great luck spot treating with Hydrogen Peroxide. A couple of spritzes then rinsing it with some tap before dropping back in the tank.

That moss hill is amazing, how did you get it to take?
I'm a big fan of the screen. You can see in the picture how much darker the hill is compared to the earlier, pre-screen photos (we even adjusted the most recent photo to make it brighter). It's not so obvious in person but on film I could really see the difference. Next time I will remove the screen for picture day! I also have screen on my little tank and it's working very well. That Hoppy fellow gives some good advice!

Regarding getting the moss hill to take:

I tied dental floss between two straightened out paper clips. Then I jammed paperclips into the substrate like stakes. I arranged the moss how I wanted it and then I pinned the moss down with the dental floss. It's kind of like a spider's web. Much to my surprise it worked. I suspect that I'll be able to remove all the anchors in about a month. things are really getting nicely interwoven. I tried to pull out an annubia to spot treat it and it was so tangled up with moss I was scared to move it. It's a good thing but it makes it harder to move stuff around.

I have no idea how people usually accomplish this task but that's what worked for me!

I've been reading about using hydrogen peroxide and I'm intrigued.


Thanks so much for reading a responding!

TTFN:fish:
 
#42 ·
This is a really great looking tank. I'm eager to hear what you think about the screen. I've been thinking of trying to cut back on my own light.

I've had great luck spot treating with Hydrogen Peroxide. A couple of spritzes then rinsing it with some tap before dropping back in the tank.

That moss hill is amazing, how did you get it to take?
 
#44 ·
I would try maybe 5x your daily excel dose for one day. Although I'm not really sure how much I put I know I put quite a bit. You will know it works if in a few days the bba turns red. If not try again with a higher dose. Remember though that it will get the other algae as well so if you have algae eaters that depend on there being algae you will want to supplement a little extra food for them for a while.
 
#45 ·
HELP! Algae!

Bad news; the bba is spreading. I'm starting to get worried. The bba is on the crypts, the annubias, the rocks, the substrate, and even the glass. It isn't a large volume, but it's widely distributed. I've also got a moderate GSA outbreak. This tank has never been totally free of bba--little tufts would appear here and there on the substrate and the crypts but the annubias and the rocks were clean.

BBA can be such a disaster. In the past we've had to cut out most of the plants and remove the hardscape to deal with it. That would be really sad.

The thing that I find most frustrating is that I don't know what the cause is. :confused:

CO2-- maxed out. More would kill the fish.
Light-- high but not crazy high. Reduced over the hill. 7 hr photoperiod.
Flow-- excellent
Fertilization--EI increased from the 20-40 gal recipe to the 40-60 gal recipe 1 month ago due to nutrient deficiency. We also add 3/32 tsp K2SO4 3x/wk to supplement the potassium (had a K deficiency)
Aeration: airstone 13hrs/day
Extras- Daily Excel 2x overdose (8ml).
Temp 74.
Plants-moderate volume, good mix of slow and fast growers. Good growth rate.
Fish: 30 tetras and white clouds, 8 corys, 1 BN Pleco, 2 ottos, 20 CRS.
Organics- this might be an issue: lots of leaves being shed from the nutrient diffiency. Lots of little stuff dug up by the Corys. Been over-feeding the fish a bit.

Interventions: did a mid-week water change. Cleaned the filter. Cleaned the spray bar. Swore off over-feeding the fish. Dosed 40 ml excel (10x over-dose).

Non-Draconian options available to me: reducing the photo period to 6 hours, extending the screen over the whole light, adjusting the ferts, putting charcoal in the filter, adding a 2 hour siesta to the photoperiod.

:help: Please help! I need suggestions. I want to fix the cause, not just the symptom!
 
#46 ·
Bad news; the bba is spreading. I'm starting to get worried. The bba is on the crypts, the annubias, the rocks, the substrate, and even the glass. It isn't a large volume, but it's widely distributed. I've also got a moderate GSA outbreak. This tank has never been totally free of bba--little tufts would appear here and there on the substrate and the crypts but the annubias and the rocks were clean.

BBA can be such a disaster. In the past we've had to cut out most of the plants and remove the hardscape to deal with it. That would be really sad.

The thing that I find most frustrating is that I don't know what the cause is. :confused:

CO2-- maxed out. More would kill the fish.
Light-- high but not crazy high. Reduced over the hill. 7 hr photoperiod.
Flow-- excellent
Fertilization--EI increased from the 20-40 gal recipe to the 40-60 gal recipe due to nutrient deficiency. We will also add 3/32 tsp K2SO4 3x/wk to supplement the potassium (had a K deficiency)
Aeration: airstone 13hrs/day
Extras- Daily Excel 2x overdose (8ml).
Temp 74.
Plants-moderate volume, good mix of slow and fast growers. Good growth rate.
Fish: 30 tetras and white clouds, 8 corys, 1 BN Pleco, 2 ottos, 20 CRS.
Organics- this might be an issue: lots of leaves being shed from the nutrient diffiency. Lots of little stuff dug up by the Corys. Been over-feeding the fish a bit.

Interventions: did a mid-week water change. Cleaned the filter. Cleaned the spray bar. Swore off over-feeding the fish. Dosed 40 ml excel (10x over-dose).

Non-Draconian options available to me: reducing the photo period to 6 hours, extending the screen over the whole light, adjusting the ferts, putting charcoal in the filter, adding a 2 hour siesta to the photoperiod.

:help: Please help! I need suggestions. I want to fix the cause, not just the symptom!
I am no expert, but I think the bold statement is your biggest problem. Maybe start with that and see where you end up?
 
#49 ·
The nutrient deficiency went away and the plants started growing really well. I don't think that's the problem since I upped the ferts because of a demonstrated deficiency. If the plants are using the nutrients, then they shouldn't cause trouble, right? We had terrible BBA before the rescape when we were dosing according to the 20-40 Gal recipe.

Is there a particular nutrient should I be most concerned about?

We've had a BBA problem in this tank for years. It got better for a month after the rescape when I removed almost everything and started fresh. Now, I feel like the tank is returning to it's old ways.
 
#51 ·
That's possible... We do have more fish than before. I wonder what the primary signs of nutrient excess are? I thought other types of algae were more related to excess nutrients than BBA?

I'm going to go throw a few more willow hygro back in there since they a majorly heavy feeders.

Hmm. Maybe it's the light? That's something that has been consistent for a long time just like the bba... Hmmm
 
#58 ·
Your tank is absolutely gorgeous! I love everything about it and I can guarantee you that, i will steal some ideas for my new tank from you. I just read your entire thread by the way lol and I must say.. F#$%!! I should have never added the BBA on the rocks from my old tank:frown:...its only a matter of time now before it spreads and gets out of control.....Im so upset with myself right now..in SW I don’t think there’s an algae like bba.. I think most if not all go away right away as soon as you put the tanks parameters in order..well..there’s one called volonia but even that isn’t as bad I think lol beautiful tank!
 
#59 ·
Thanks Seahunter! Your earlier saltwater tanks are amazing! BBA will supposedly go away if you get your tank parameters stabilized, but we've never managed to do it for very long. Best bet has been to remove leaves that are covered and hardscape if it gets too bad...You may have better luck than I do. Good luck!

Your tank is absolutely gorgeous! I love everything about it and I can guarantee you that, i will steal some ideas for my new tank from you. I just read your entire thread by the way lol and I must say.. F#$%!! I should have never added the BBA on the rocks from my old tank:frown:...its only a matter of time now before it spreads and gets out of control.....Im so upset with myself right now..in SW I don’t think there’s an algae like bba.. I think most if not all go away right away as soon as you put the tanks parameters in order..well..there’s one called volonia but even that isn’t as bad I think lol beautiful tank!
 
#61 ·
First of all, beautiful tank! Nice scaping.
Regarding your algae, I think you have a light issue. I have a 40B with 2x39 t5ho and have slowly raised the lights up (using Hoppys chart in the lighting section of the forum) I was battling various algae for a year before I used the chart to get my lighting down to medium (according to the chart) Here is how high I now have my lights set up.It may actually be up 2 more inches since the pic. I too have pressurized co2 and EI dosing. Trust me...high light is not all its cracked up to be.


Keep up the good work, it is looking great!
 
#63 ·
First of all, beautiful tank! Nice scaping.
Regarding your algae, I think you have a light issue. I have a 40B with 2x39 t5ho and have slowly raised the lights up (using Hoppys chart in the lighting section of the forum) I was battling various algae for a year before I used the chart to get my lighting down to medium (according to the chart) Here is how high I now have my lights set up.It may actually be up 2 more inches since the pic. I too have pressurized co2 and EI dosing. Trust me...high light is not all its cracked up to be.


Keep up the good work, it is looking great!
Thanks Nate McFin - Like I said on your thread, your hanging system is pretty nice! We've also been using pressurized CO2 and EI since we started, and haven't been able to go more than a few months without some sort of algae out break...generally timed around getting off-track with fertilizing or running out of CO2 and needing a day or two to get the tank refilled. Lower light would hopefully help balance out those issues.

Your tank has gone through some nice revisions too, I think I've liked each version!
 
#66 ·
I posted in this in my thread but I decided to also paste a portion of it here as it really pertains to your thread here as well. I look forward to seeing how things work out for you.
Nate

FROM MY THREAD-REPLY TO GHOTIFISH
I have never heard of too high of light causing slow growth with the exception of if the high light causes a deficiency of ferts or co2. Which obviously happens all the time. I have been alot happier with my tank since I bumped it up a few notches. I always felt like I was chasing my tail with algae/deficiency and bad growth. Now the growth is slower (I am good with that) and I dont see nearly the problems with algae I used to.

Good luck!
Nate
 
#67 ·
Tested my water, but I don't know what it means!

I just tested the gH and kH in my tank. The gH is <1! the Kh is 12-13, and the pH is in the 7ish range out of the tap.

Are these water parameters something that should concern me? Should I be doing something?

We are using a salt-based water softener because our well water is liquid rust. I wonder if there is a bunch of salt I'm my water...

I wonder if this contributes to some of my plants growing slowly, my snails dying, and my algae problems?



PS: My husband wants me to be clear that my definition of an "algae problem" is any visible algae, especially any BBA. :wink:
 
#68 ·
I just tested the gH and kH in my tank. The gH is <1! the Kh is 12-13, and the pH is in the 7ish range out of the tap.

Are these water parameters something that should concern me? Should I be doing something?

We are using a salt-based water softener because our well water is liquid rust. I wonder if there is a bunch of salt I'm my water...

I wonder if this contributes to some of my plants growing slowly, my snails dying, and my algae problems?



PS: My husband wants me to be clear that my definition of an "algae problem" is any visible algae, especially any BBA. :wink:
It could be causing the snail problem. Not really sure though. I am not 100% on how well water and all that is.
 
#70 ·
Well, the pet store didn't have a tds tester so I decided that I would test my gh and kh instead. I had actually tested my gh and kh recently, but I didn't believe the results because they seemed "out of whack". I got a different brand of test strips and the same resukts, so I think they are fairly reliable.

From what I've been reading, these results may be related to my water softener which reduces gh by removing CA and increases kh by adding sodium. People are pretty adamant that water softener water is bad in a planted tank, but in my case I cannot use my untreated water because it has 500x the normal amount of iron and is dark orange--basically liquid rust.

My only options are to live with it, replace the whole house's water treatment system, or set-up an RO/DI system. I've been trying to live with it since I've blown through a lot of money on aquarium stuff lately and I don't know anything about plumbing.

To that end, I put 1 Tbs of GLA "ultimate GZh Booster" into the tank tonight (it turns out my husband ordered a bag full a long time ago, we just haven't been using it). I'm going to test tomorrow, when I'm sure it's totally dissolved. I want to get the GH up to 3-4, I think.

Getting sleepy, more posts later...
 
#72 ·
Hi all -

Life obviously got away from us a bit. We're still plugging away at the tank - in the last several months we've had: 1) a 7 or so day power outage where we managed to keep all of our fish, 2) dropped our light into the fishtank and had about a week of one lamp before our new light setup arrived, and 3) the busy part of year for both of us.

That said, everything is still looking pretty good. The setbacks have kept us from seeing the full glosso carpet come in, and our Ludwigia Red was hit pretty hard and is only growing very tiny leafs. The Rotala Macrandra is very new to the tank, but the new growth seems to be coming in nicely formed, but far less red.

The new light is a 2x39 from Catalina, hung on some universal hanging bars I found online. Building our own would have probably been nicer, but these aren't too bad. Hanging it was a bit of a chore - we ended up having to tie Prussik knots in rope that then hooked to the chain in order to stop the main attachment from potentially sliding backwards. Seems to work pretty well - although maybe not the cleanest looking. This is our first time hanging a fixture, and the lightbulbs were shining much more into our eyes than before. We have temporarily hung sheets of printer paper infront of the light to block it, which seems to do the trick without shading the tank much. What do other people do about this?

Aquascaping wise, any thoughts? The hill is nice, although the moss and the size of the other plants on the left side of the scape kind of swallow the rocks. We've already dug them out and put them on risers made of gravel in nylons. The earlier scape with the willow hygro more central was maybe nicer than this current look - but it would be nice to incorporate some of the red stems somehow. If we can get them to grow nicely - any thoughts on the small leaves of the Ludwigia Red?

Not sure about the stand of Lindernia - in some ways I like the placement and in others it may cut too much into the staurogyne/glosso carpet. If we can't get the glosso to grow sideways soon we may give up on it. Haven't had very good luck with carpets in this tank.

Anyways, enough chatting. Here are some new shots:

Full tank shot:


The hill (we use these straightened out paperclips to hold the moss down for a little while after we pull huge clumps out to trim it):


The new-ish red plants (Rotala Macrandra on left, Ludwigia Red on the left:


The new light hanging setup:
 
#73 · (Edited)
Hi, this is ghotifish's other half,

As always, this tank is a collaboration. Personally, I think this aquascape needs some editing. I'm not satisfied with the stem plants in the background. I worry that the impact of the hill is lost with stems of the same height all across the back. However, I'm having a hard time deciding what would look better. I do like all the lushness of our current scape.

Suggestions?

Right now we are trying to grow out the two red plants to see if either will be successful in this tank. Since we got the new light, the plant growth seems like it has improved, due to significantly better light distribution in the tank. I'm hoping to finally get some horizontal growth on the glosso. Also, the tiny bit of hc that survived since my first failed HC at temp is starting to grow under the new lights, so I'm hoping that we may finally have a chance to grow a nice little carpet of HC.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with the tank but I would appreciate any design ideas you all might have. It's hard to think objectively about your own tank when you see it everyday!

P.S. here are some more pics!

Thanks for reading


Hill Horizontal:


Hill Vertical:


Full light system:
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top