Complexity help me :)

[HD Blazingwolf]

Lol no, but he should

[Chlorophile]

Originally Posted by HD Blazingwolf

The point im trying to make is, plants will grow fine without it. Its unnecessary. In 99% of all cases u can either add more c02 or reduce light intensity/ photoperiod.

Also the lethal limits are different for potassium than excel.
There are over 100 types of good bacteria in a healthy tank. Maybe im ignorant but its strong enough stuff that it will most likely affect one or more of those bacteria.
They may be inconsequential to the tanks health, much like cherry shrimp really dont improve water quality, they just help keep surfaces clean.
But i'd rather not mess with those things, i like my tanks to have more natural components and less chemicals and i advise people likewise. Ive seen excels uses and i dont doubt its effectiveness
Carbon is effective but many find it useless in planted tanks and for those who are willing to do more or larger water changes even on non planted tanks. Water is a lot cheaper than activated carbon
This is how i try if inneffectively sometimes to relay excel and whether or not it should be used

While I value your opinion, I disagree.

What makes something unnecessary?
Is co2 unnecessary?
Is more light unnecessary?
Is more o2 unnecessary?
Is more filtration unnecessary?

Excel serves a purpose, as does anything.
We can grow plants many different ways and no matter the method there are almost always ways to see gains.

Do you disavow excel use even as a short term remedy to get back on track from some sort of disaster?
I've had many layouts nearly collapse in the first month or two, only to be saved by a week or so of excel dosing.

When you spend time and cash on an aquascape, it's often very worth it to use some excel vs start over.

Not so important when you have lower light tanks with cheap or no hardscape materials or plants and time invested like many of our tanks.

[HD Blazingwolf]

Water change and work are my preffered methods. Ive never seen excel do more than what TLC can do.
Again i dont disagree it has its purpose just that there are better options IMO

[HunterX]

This has turned into a great biology lesson. You all have very valid points that IMO are interrelated. Obviously my first priority is to achieve balance in the tank as does nature. Unfortunately, I failed to achieve balance initially as I'm sure many have failed at also. My goal is to find the balance between fert, light, and co2. In the mean time, I want to eradicate what small amount of BBA that managed to take hold! Thats where the excel comes in. Until starting the post I thought excel was a fert. I know understand it to only be a more readily available carbon source for plants and some how causing algae to die. So I still must get some micro and macro ferts.

[HD Blazingwolf]

Ferts are the easiest to master. Disclaimer now..
FERTS DO NOT CAUSE algae.. i cant tell you how many times after i started dosing more ferts i got algae. It wasnt the fertilizer. Algae can live off untestable levels of nutrients, it is a very basic organism.

When u dose acceptable levels of ferts and have not previously done so, u may show a deficiency elsewhere and it is likely related to c02.

The order of primary goes like this. Light controls plant growth. C02 is the building block of most plant tissue and enzymes so more light means more c02 needed.
C02 cannot effectively be absorbed and utilized without appropriate nutrients. Without enough fert, the system is fertilizer limited which is very safe in terms of algae.

However having non limiting ferts and not enough c02 causes the plant to grow unhealthy tissue and algae becomes a problem.

When i was first learning i blame ferts a lot. They are never the cause not even 10ppm phosphates will cause algae. Ive been there. So just a warning when u dose ferts. Ur plants will likely have an awesome growth spurt from stored c02 and then slow down, if they do this, u need more c02

[HunterX]

Wolf do you think carbon will still be an issue since I have a lot of CO2 going in? I keep my drop checker almost yellow.

[HD Blazingwolf]

NOPE
carbon doesnt hurt anything
water changes are far cheaper though they also remove a lot more than carbon does (such as algae spores, plant and fish horomones) , and add things that it doesn't

[Complexity]

Originally Posted by NWA-Planted

Lol, has complexity even responded?

Actually, the OP sent me a PM, and I've been responding there. I did not know about this thread until someone else sent me a PM with a link to it.

So, yes, I have responded. I helped HunterX with getting dry ferts, how to dose them, and how much to dose, as well as the EI dosing cycle. I also discussed how to kill BBA using H2O2. Since he only has a mild breakout of BBA, I recommended he use the lowest and safest level of H2O2 on his tank.

As far as the discussion of glut, everyone has a right to their opinion and to state it. Few will be convinced to change their mind in a thread like this. For every argument that can be given on one side, a counter argument can be given on the other side, and so it become nothing but a great discussion without end.

The main this is for us to all be informed of the potential benefits and potential consequences of using products, such as Excel, so we can each make our own decisions on whether to use the product on our own tanks. What works for one may not work for the other, and that's okay. In fact, that's one of the best things about this hobby.

There is no single "right" or "wrong" way to do a planted tank, allowing us all to pick and chose what works for each of us on an individual basis. And we do not need to convince the other person to do it our way, but rather, we can enjoy knowing that we can each achieve pleasing results using a variety of different methods.

[HunterX]

Thanks again complexity

[Complexity]

My pleasure!