The Planted Tank Forum banner

callisto9's 20G high planted tank - low tech

14K views 114 replies 16 participants last post by  bluestems 
#1 ·
Well, after my 6.6G Petco, I quickly wanted to get a bigger tank. We have a super small house, so space is at a premium. I finally found about two feet of space and got a tank and stand that fit perfectly.

This is the tank as of last week:


Tank size: 20G high

Plants: anubias, java fern, amazon sword, crypts (melted, but are coming back), hornwort, brazilian pennywort, anachris (a lot melted), water wisteria, vals

Lighting: One 15W 8000K full spectrum florescent light

Ferts: just some root tabs

Fish and snails: three mystery snails, many ramshorns, seven glowlight tetras. Two guppies will be moved over pretty soon.

It's been a frustrating road, but I think things are finally starting to turn around.

I just got some awesome plants today, too, and will be planting them this weekend.

Thoughts and opinions welcome!
 
See less See more
1
#39 ·
I had him four months, not nearly long enough. I don't believe it is contagious to other Gouramis, but except for Honey Gouramis, they all get too big for a 20 gallon in the long run. I'm going to monitor the tank for a while, and if all is well I'll look for a new king of the tank. Thanks for your concern.
 
#41 ·
Loooooong overdue update (thanks Shelly). :)

Well, here's what's new:

* Starting picking out all the pink ramshorns. Everyone was right - you'll end up with a ton. I have probably picked out/given away about 100 at this point. I bet there's at least 10+ left in the tank. No more adding ramshorns for me.

* My first apple snail I purchased - a yellow one - died about a week ok. No idea why. I joined an apple snail forum, but we just couldn't help him. RIP "Epic Snail". Here he is during better times:


* Added two albino cory catfish. I know, I'm supposed to have four or more for schooling purposes, but I resisted and then realized I'm really close to being overstocked. And, after having them for a week, I really don't care for them. They were recommended as "clean up crew" for the floor of my tank, but their mad dash back and forth across the center of the tank ALL DAY LONG kinda disrupts the peacefulness that was my tank. At this point, I'm looking to trade or sell them.

* Finally moved over the dwarf gourami (named Juicy Fruit) after some QT. He's doing well and is very peaceful. However, it seems it could be him or the cories that nipped the fins of the blue guppy since the guppy's tail was nipped after the gourami and cories were added.

* One of my PetSmart fancy blue guppies had his tail fin shredded - twice. I have NO idea what fish did it. He's now in the QT tank with the Japan Blue guppies.

* I have fry! My Japan Blue guppies have produced babies. I have no idea which one popped them out, but fry and two females are now in the fry net in my little 6.6 gallon tank. Problem is, my regular blue guppy is in that tank, too, and I want to keep him away from the females so he doesn't impregnate them and pollute the Japan Blue line. He was in the net before I saw the fry and now he's in the main area, away from the ladies. I was going to treat him with some melafix, but held off once I saw the fry.

I still have diatoms. :icon_cry: I've cut back on my light from 16 hours to about 8. I am dosing once a week with Flourish Comprehensive, but I don't know if it's doing any good. I'm not so good with this nutrient stuff.

So, there you have it!
 

Attachments

#42 ·
Awwwww, the little fry are so cute! :smile:

Sorry to hear about your mystery snail. That sucks. Any ideas why s/he died? Speaking of... I've spotted some very teeny tiny regular snails in my tank. They must have hitch hiked in on the dhg I picked up from the Wet Spot in Portland. I didn't rinse the plant. :icon_redf Oh well...

I know what you mean about the cories being a bit over-active, especially with other fish like gouramis that tend to meander more than dart around. That bugs me too.

If you do trade them in and still want some kind of ground feeder, check out the amano shrimp. They are supposed to be pretty hardy and have been excellent cleaners in my tank. Khuli loaches are pretty awesome too. They dart back and forth right when the light goes on, but otherwise they just tend to hang out, mostly working at night. They have the cutest faces with short whiskers.

btw, you take a-mazing pictures! How do you get such clear shots? I have troubles with reflections showing.

Anyhooo... don't feel like you HAVE to update here, but it is cool to see how things are going with your tank. :smile: I could always pop in at the other site too, if that's easier. :smile: (you'll have to let me know the site, though!)
 
#43 ·
Too bad about your snail :( Congratulations on your fry though! It would be fun to have little cuties swimming about.

I had corydoras before. They were cute little things but I couldn't stand their crazy behavior during water changes so I took them all back to the LFS. They were awful swimming crazily and banging themselves into the glass. When I wasn't doing water changes they were fine, but I perform the PWC every week. Just couldn't stand it.

How is your Gourami doing? Any new pictures?
 
#44 ·
I have no idea why the mystery snail died. I joined an apple snail forum and we tried an "oxygen treatment", but it made no difference. There's just not much out there about how to treat sick apple snails. The other two are doing really well, so I don't have a clue.

I was told by the LFS that corys would be a good cleanup crew, but they're almost never on the bottom of the tank. They swim back and forth across the middle of the tank all day. They bump into everything; themselves, the branch, the other fish, the walls, plants... they are so annoying! I am trying to sell or give them away. I guess I could take them back to the LFS...

I gotta tell ya, I'm on a mission now to get all the mini snails out of the tank. They took over SO quickly.

As for my pics, it's funny you say they're amazing; I don't feel like I take good pics of my stuff. Some of my best pics have come from my iPhone 5 and I have a fancy DSLR! To avoid reflection, close shades on windows and/or take the pics at an angle. Obviously, don't use a flash. I feel like I can never get good pics of the fish 'cause they never sit still!

The other site I joined is Aquarium Advice. It's a good all-around forum, but not as specialized as the Planted Tank. Though there are several members who have planted tanks over there, too.

The gourmai, Juicy Fruit, is doing great. :) He's my star of the tank. I love him! Here's a pic from today:
 

Attachments

#46 ·
I prefer the Kuhli Loaches over the Corydoras. They do not dart around the tank spastically or run into things. My corys were the same as yours. They were cute I must admit with the little fat bodies. They seem to me to be the hobbits of the fish world LOL! I do like the Bandit Corydoras. I had them mixed with Julies and a couple others (can't recall at the moment) and the Bandits were quite different than the others. They did not freak out during water changes or run over eachother, decor and other fish. So, if I ever decided to get them again, I would definetely go with Bandits.

I never saw the Kuhli Loaches before the rescape, infact I thought they all died, but after the DW, plants and lake rocks went in, they are never in hiding! It's aawesome!!!! They swim all over the place and it's adorable the way their bodies are diagonal and they swoop up and down. Fascinating. I have 7 of them right now, and plan to up the numbers to 10 or 12. They are great at wriggling in tight places to get food that escaped the other fish.

Juicy Fruit is gorgeous! Glad the star of the tank is doing so well :) That's great! Is he sociable with you? I imagine Gouramis to be like Bettas in that respect.

I have the same problem with the ramshorn snails. I made an attempt to irraticate them during the rescape. I don't know if I succeeded or not, but I haven't seen one in 2 weeks now. Promising. I used to see them every morning. I do have a ton of Malaysian Trumpet Snails. And some pond snails. I don't mind the pond snails though. They do not explode in numbers like the Ramshorn did. I never killed the snails. Couldn't do it. So, I put them in the QT when I catch them. I've taken 4 quart sized bags full of Ramshorns to the LFS. In the QT I put a total of 20 in there. I feed them only every 2 weeks by dropping in some blanched cucumber, spinich and lettuce. I also give them some meaty pellets. Not a lot of food ever though. Just enough. And still, their numbers exploded! So, I strongly believe it is a myth that their numbers will only explode if a person is overfeeding the fish. My QT can attest to that!

I had thought about adding a single baby Assissin snail to the big tank. They will also mulitply. Some say not as fast as other snails, but others have said they have tons raqther quickly. Once they eat all the other snails, they die. Gross. That is not what I want to happen in my tank. I also thought about adding 3-4 Yoyo Loaches, but unfortuantely read they will nip my Angels fins. So, no on them!

I will just have to pick the MTS's out as I see them I guess to keep their numbers in check. Sigh

I watched you fry video. So cute! What will you do with them? You should see if your LFS will buy them from you or give store credit for fish food or something. That's be cool. Also, you should see if the LFS will trade the corys for something else or store credit. Worth a shot!
 
#52 ·
I prefer the Kuhli Loaches over the Corydoras. They do not dart around the tank spastically or run into things. My corys were the same as yours. They were cute I must admit with the little fat bodies. They seem to me to be the hobbits of the fish world LOL! I do like the Bandit Corydoras. I had them mixed with Julies and a couple others (can't recall at the moment) and the Bandits were quite different than the others. They did not freak out during water changes or run over eachother, decor and other fish. So, if I ever decided to get them again, I would definetely go with Bandits.

Juicy Fruit is gorgeous! Glad the star of the tank is doing so well :) That's great! Is he sociable with you? I imagine Gouramis to be like Bettas in that respect.

I have the same problem with the ramshorn snails. I made an attempt to irraticate them during the rescape. I don't know if I succeeded or not, but I haven't seen one in 2 weeks now. Promising. I used to see them every morning. I do have a ton of Malaysian Trumpet Snails. And some pond snails. I don't mind the pond snails though. They do not explode in numbers like the Ramshorn did. I never killed the snails. Couldn't do it. So, I put them in the QT when I catch them. I've taken 4 quart sized bags full of Ramshorns to the LFS. In the QT I put a total of 20 in there. I feed them only every 2 weeks by dropping in some blanched cucumber, spinich and lettuce. I also give them some meaty pellets. Not a lot of food ever though. Just enough. And still, their numbers exploded! So, I strongly believe it is a myth that their numbers will only explode if a person is overfeeding the fish. My QT can attest to that!

I had thought about adding a single baby Assissin snail to the big tank. They will also mulitply. Some say not as fast as other snails, but others have said they have tons raqther quickly. Once they eat all the other snails, they die. Gross. That is not what I want to happen in my tank. I also thought about adding 3-4 Yoyo Loaches, but unfortuantely read they will nip my Angels fins. So, no on them!

I will just have to pick the MTS's out as I see them I guess to keep their numbers in check. Sigh

I watched you fry video. So cute! What will you do with them? You should see if your LFS will buy them from you or give store credit for fish food or something. That's be cool. Also, you should see if the LFS will trade the corys for something else or store credit. Worth a shot!
Alright, going to try this again!

I see that khuli loaches need to be in groups of five or more. *sigh* My bioload can't handle that right now. I am intrigued though! Would they harm my apple snails though?

The cories are still really annoying me. I want them gone. I have messaged the LFS on Facebook about returning them, but no response yet.

Juicy Fruit the gourami does seem to have a little interest in me. He comes up to the front of the tank when I approach. I really like him a lot, but wow, I hear such horror stories about gouramis (aggression, illness).

As for the Japan Blue fry - they are doing great! I have about 9-10 in the fry net and two outside of it (can't catch them). All are doing well. I plan on selling them back to the LFS for store credit as my little 6.6 gallon tank can't hold 20 small adult guppies.

Thanks for writing! :D
 
#48 ·
Awww, the fry are so tiiiiiiny! Nice little home you've made for them with the floaters on top.

Those corys would bug me too. "bumping into themselves..." lol I don't care for anything that disrupts the rhythm of the tank, or is aggressive. If you've done a lot of business with the fish store that you purchased them from, I'd imagine that they'll most likely give you a full credit for the return. They might just want a separate sample of the tank water to test parameters. Fish not meshing is usually a valid reason for returns. :smile:

Thanks for the tips on pictures. Didn't think about the other lighting in the room... will try fully closing the blinds and turning off the room light and see if that helps with the reflection. btw, I seriously thought part of your job included taking pictures for some reason. Not sure where I got that impression from... ? maybe it's THE AMAZING PHOTOS THAT YOU ALWAYS POST. ;) eg. nigel in places. If you're taking those with a phone, that is an incredible phone camera... mine is total crap. I blame dropping it numerous times. :icon_redf

I'll check out the other blog. It's always nice just to share in the joy over having fish. (being the rest of my family think I'm nuts!)

ps- Amanda, khuli loaches are one of my favorite fish. If I wasn't trying to grow hc, they'd be in my current tank. :smile:
 
#50 ·
ps- Amanda, khuli loaches are one of my favorite fish. If I wasn't trying to grow hc, they'd be in my current tank. :smile:
They are awesome! Will you get some when your HC grows in?

WAIT! I posted a long response to Amanda's post and it's gone!!! NOOOOOO!!!
Oh no! That's terrible! That same thing happened to me tonight when I was posting pics! I had 20 or so and then my daughter bumped me and POOF! Gone!
I know this is not funny that you lost your post, but I must tell you that again, your cat avatar says "noooooooo" for you when you posted that! I hear the cat LOL!
 
#56 ·
Good point about being in a tank with potential predators. Maybe it's not the new scape that's brought the kuhlis out of hiding in my tank but the fact the crazy Puntius Denisonis are gone. They may have been precieved as predators the way they lurked through the plants and picked the substrate? Or actually, a more probable theory is this: the way the Puntius Denisonii were always panicing at the sight or sound of someone moving in the house. That very well may have kept the Kuhli's in hiding because it was a sign of danger.
 
#57 ·
Update on my tank!

All is well, for the most part. I have another snail that's not doing so well - seems to be going the same route as my first yellow apple snail. I have no idea what to do, nor what the culprit might be. I wonder if the it's Flourish Comprehensive or root tabs.

I re-homed the albino cory cats.

I moved over two male Japan Blue guppies and the blue fancy guppy that had his tail shredded. All are doing well.



I am still picking out ramshorns. Population is getting under control.

I'd love to add some kuhli loaches, but 1) I don't think they'd do well with the Eco Complete and 2) I'm nearly 100% stocked right now.
 
#58 ·
He's a beauty!

Sorry to hear that another snail isn't doing well. If there's little alage in the tank, could they not be getting enough to eat? Do you add any algae wafers or steamed zucchini?

Glad the cories found a good home and all is well otherwise! :proud:

ps- I have two khulis in my nano tank and they are getting fat, seem to be doing fine. They hang together under the rock with the shrimps when the light is on, mostly. I personally think you can have less than in a large group, and have had them in pairs many times... if you want to try them down the road, I'd say go for it!
 
#59 ·
I have not been adding algae wafers... I have since moved them out of the 20G tank into a spare jar until I figure this out. I do kinda over-feed, so I assumed there was food at the bottom. Even with algae wafers, the fish would eat those up before a snail could get to it anyway. I'm pretty sure the brown one isn't going to make it. :(

I am happy to have the cories gone. I do want a few kuhli loaches, but only 2-3. I want the banded ones, but can't seem to find anything besides the black ones around here.

Here's some pics from yesterday:









 
#60 ·
Wow, the fish are looking so colorful! I really love the coloring of your dwarf gourami... he's just beautiful. Is the Goby(?) aggressive at all?

I believe snails just eat algae/some plants, so I'm not sure they would feed on flake food. Maybe try a slice of steamed zucchini... I hear snails like those too. My shrimp love 'em!
 
#61 ·
The gudgeons/gobies are not aggressive at all. Everyone in the tank is pretty peaceful for the most part. The gourami will dart at fish every now and again, but from all I can tell, mostly keeps to himself.

The snails are in a 1.5 gallon jar right now. I'm going to keep them in there. Add a heater..filter. Something. They just get picked on too much with fish in the tank. The female Japan blue guppies picked at them relentlessly.
 
#62 ·
Hey Erin!

I found my copy of Ecology of the Planted Aquarium about the dirt/sand low-tech method of planted tanks. It's the method I used for my other tanks, and the school aquariums (a 10g and a 75g) at my daughters' elementary school. It's super easy to maintain, I did water changes once a month and water top offs, with no ferts or co2 and they did really well with little algae.

If you like, I can mail you the book. :)
 
#66 ·
I'm sorry you're having such a hard time, especially since it's your first time with the hobby. If I hadn't started a planted aquarium using her method, I think I would have become disheartened and given up pretty quickly. The more pieces of the ecosystem that you have to control/keep balanced, the easier it is for things to go out of balance.

imho, the substrate and lighting are the determining factors as to how much you have to supplement co2 and nutrients.

With the Walstad method, as I understand it, the soil acts as a mechanism to turn the fish food and waste into nutrients for the plants. It's actually better to "overfeed" the fish as she calls it "feeding the plants". The plants help to clean the water and remove co2. However, you have to low-light (1-2 wpg) and a good amount of plants for it to work in an aquarium, and be sure to not overstock fish. She says at one point "it's better to over stock in plants, than to over stock in fish".

The worst thing that ever occurred using her method was during the first month of setting up the 75g at school. One day out of nowhere the entire tank was green, the water was green I mean, so much that you couldn't see anything inside. I left the lights off for a couple of days and on the third day, the entire tank was clear water again... just like that.

It really was much easier, and cheaper. You do have to have the right expectations... like you won't be able to grow lush groundcovers like hc, imho. But, I enjoyed the tanks I had and the plants thrived, the fish were happy and it just worked. (In hindsight, I'm not sure how much Boulder's city water may have contributed to the success. It was really clean and pure, compared to many other places. Our in-laws always enjoyed our coffee, saying the water made the difference.)

Another consideration is if you try this method, you'd have to revamp the substrate. It would be a redo. :icon_cry: Maybe try reading the book while giving the ferts a go (since you have them) and then decide later. (the majority of the book is mostly the science behind why each component of the tank works, complete with her experiments and data tables. If you're like me, I just skipped to the 'how' at the end and followed the instructions. ;) )

You could also setup a second tank using the Walstad method, transfer in a small bio load of fish, and slowly transfer over the other fish until it's empty then sell the initial setup.

Woah... sorry that was so long! But, I hope it's somewhat helpful. Let me know if you want the book and I'll get it out to you. :smile:
 
#71 ·
Woah... sorry that was so long! But, I hope it's somewhat helpful. Let me know if you want the book and I'll get it out to you. :smile:
You've been EXTREMELY helpful Sherry. I appreciate all the advice, time and effort you've put into helping me.

I *do* want low tech, low light... low maintenance. I never got into this for it to be complex or time-consuming. I wanted a simple tank, some plants and some fish. As it stands now, I've invested over $600 and I have a tank filled with crud, plants that don't thrive/survive and more conflicting information than I know what to do with. It is *the* source of my frustration.

While I love the look of the high-tech tanks, I don't want to put that kind of effort in.

My plans for right now? I'm just going to read and listen for the next few days. :) I have $50 of nutrients I bought that are still sitting on my kitchen table that I'm not wanting to deal with. It's just... too complex.
 
#67 · (Edited)
Sorry to hear your plants aren't doing well.

So what do you mean by "gunk"? Is it algae or rotting plants?

If you haven't added any fertilizers yet I would guess that's your problem. My plants are doing much better after a meltdown last October, by adding Leaf Zone which provides I and K, and CO2 Booster as directed. The rest of the micros are provided by the fish food, as suggested by Diana here on the forum. Easy, no fuss, and not that expensive for a 20H. I assumed the fish waste would fertilize the tank, I was wrong.

Remove all rotting vegetation, it will lead to more problems. I know you don't like Corys, but I'm a firm believer in bottom dwellers to stir things up down there. I love my Peppered Corys, they don't swim around frantically and don't bump into things. They just calmly poke around on the plants and bottom looking for food, I don't know what was up with your albinos. Maybe they can't see very well.

I always wondered if your light was bright enough, but your pictures are similar in brightness to mine, so I'd try fertilizers first.

I also added a cheap HOB 10g filter for the other side of the tank from the 20g one a while back, I didn't feel I had enough water circulation, and gave me peace of mind for my bacteria colonies. I alternate changing the filter pads so I always have a colony to take care of the ammonia and nitrites.

Our paths have been similar so far, I hope what I learned helps.
 
#68 ·
I assumed the fish waste would fertilize the tank, I was wrong.
It depends on the type of plant & setup. Here's some folks growing basil in a hydroponics system.

If you're just beginning, it's really most important to pick a method that suits what you'd like to accomplish, and follow the specs as closely as possible: from the right substrate type and depth, the amount & type of lighting, and following the feeding/maintenance schedule.

As you get more experience, you can tweak things based on your conditions and as your expectations/wants change.

There's some good folks here though that do just about every type/method of tank out there in the world of planted aquariums... so hopefully you'll find what you need. :smile:
 
#70 ·
Yes truly a lovely pic from the beginning.
Your light looks very low. I am seeing some shadows. Have you thought of upgrading your light?

Cheapest light upgrade would be a T5HO hanging as Hyzer did for his 29G. Then there is the SolarMax T5 NO with which Jacob had over his 20G high. They can be bought at Pet Blvd.
 
#73 ·
I have one 15W 8000K full spectrum bulb. When I was dealing with diatoms and other crud, everyone told me to keep the light on 6-8 hours a day, so I reduced it down from 12. I think it's on from 2:30 - 10:30, so eight hours right now.

I don't want to upgrade my lighting at this point. I want to work with what I have and if that means covering my tank with anubias, so be it. :hihi: They are the only plant that's done well in there! LOL
 
#75 · (Edited)
Happy to help! :smile: I don't think your tank is far off from stabilizing. You've had a bit of a rough start and getting a lot of mixed advice (I think I used recipe metaphor on the other site, but it's really more closely related to something like vegetable gardening. I think what you're looking for is like an organic garden with some composting ;) )

Imho, the substrate being disrupted when you refill the tank, and moving objects around is probably causing debris into the water which is then settling on things around the tank. That's what it looks like in this pic at least. Marimo balls collect debris a lot (and are a favorite of shrimps because of it), so to clean them it's easy to pull one out after a water change and gently squeeze them in the removed tank water.

Use the airline hose trick to suck out the excess debris and do the water change suggested on the other board. I bet after you lose the debris and stop kicking up new substrate, the ammonia level will drop back to 0. Your nitrates are good still. :)

I'm not sure what happened to your plants before, but its possible not all of them were low-light type plants, however, some plants do experience a "melting" when first transplanted. They don't die entirely, but do die back and then return healthy.

I think you're doing the right thing by stepping back to research more about the different methods available and decide what you want to do. Some people do just fine with low light plants under low light and occasional dosing of ferts with your substrate. (I believe root tabs can work in this situation)

You might consider posting a fts with a list of plants you currently have to get some feedback on whether they're good for your setup and suggestions. There are many low-light plant options.

btw, 15w for a 20g is less than 1 watt per gallon, but you do have the a good light spectrum. Low light tanks typically have between 1-2 wpg. Reducing the photoperiod, imho, was not the right direction to go with such a low light to begin with. When we know more about what plants you have now, it will help.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top