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Looking for help, BBA everywhere :(

3K views 24 replies 12 participants last post by  DavidZ 
#1 ·
After many months spent on the italian forums, i am finally here, since i think there is no better forum on the internet regarding planted tanks.

I would like to apologise in advance if my English isn't the best but as you already recognised , it is not my main language.

I am having a huge problems with BBA, they are attacking all the plants in my tank, which is a 100 litres, 80x30x40 cm

My values are:
Ph:6.8
Kh:5
Gh:8
No2:0.02
No3:8
Phos: 0,05 (they were higher than 5 mg/l when BBA exploded, I slowly reduced them with rowa phos resin which is still in my filter)
Iron:0,1
Co2: 30ppm

My lights are 4 t5HO , each of them being 24 watt, they were on for 9 hours, now 8 hours
2 are 6500k
1 is 4000k
1 is dennerle specialplant (2700k I think)

I change water every 2 weeks around 20 litres with salts from seachem to reinstablish natural values of the tank. (Seachem equilibrium and seachem alkaline buffer)

My EI dosing is this one

As you can see I dose on Monday's, Wednesday's,Friday's and Sunday's .

I tried to burn algae with seachem excel but no real result.

I tried to install a powerhead(nanokoralia 900lt/h ) for higher flow.

My co2 is on point: 1 hour before lights turn on, turns off 2 hours after lights go off. Drop checker is a vivid green.

I tried to dose prodibio bio digest to increase good bacters in my external filter, hydor prime 20.

Now I think the problem here is the light , I think it is either too powerful or too close to the surface of tank (it is at 7 cm now)

I don't know if I am right , anyway I might turn 2 lights OFF and leave only 2 tubes (6500 k 24 watt each) ON , so I can reduce more than enough my lights power. From 96 watt to 48 watt.

What can i do ? I am fed up of spending so muchhhh money to limit this problem, it is annoying and i am losing faith, please help me and sorry again for my English and the length of my post.

Here are some pictures
 
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#3 ·
Try this to kill everything and then fix what caused the issue in the first place



http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=203684

I don't understand the dosage, what the author means by "add 4 tbsp of h2o2" ?

I might have some h2o2 in my house, the one that sell the pharmacy.

I would like to know the ML of this treatment , thanks a lot !

And also, I do not know which is the cause that caused the BBA >.< maybe lights ?
 
#7 ·
I think it's too much light for too long a time in a tank 40cm tall -- you might be able to remove 2 of your tubes, and shorten to 6 hours until you get your plants growing better than the algae.

When things are better, you might be able to go to 3 tubes, but also raise the fixture. I'd not do a photoperiod more than 8 hours even under the best circumstances.
 
#14 ·
It's a Microsoft Excel file that is basically a 4 cycles dosing /week on a 2/3 ratio over seachem recemmended doses. (For example excel is a 5/4 dose but flourish comprehensive is just 2/4 dose, in the end it is basically a 2/3 fertilization schedule, nothing fancy at all :wink:

I have a 25 gallon with a Zoomed light with 2 T5 ho's 24 watts each.

I run the light for 8 hours a day.

No Co2

And I dose dry ferts 1/32 teaspoon Nitrate
1/32 tsp phosphate and 1/32 tsp potassium sulfate on water change day which is about 65% because this tank is full of little baby plecos probably 40 right now but the numbers go up and down because I sell them. Also have several hundred Cherry shrimp. Day after water change I dose Micros 1/32 tsp, I also dose Seachem Liquid Iron on days that I dose Micros, generally just twice a week though the bottle I believe says dose 1 ML per gallon I dose around 15 ML twice a week.

So I dose Macros 3 times a week and Micros 3 times a week then wait a day and do another water change.

Tank is full of plants and thriving, also have a Eheim 2026 for lots of flow, pump output is 251 gph

If I were you with a tank so small I would just trim all plants with any algae, they should come back just fine. Start dosing dry ferts, depending on stock you could definitely dose double nitrate, (1/16) or up to (1/8 ) teaspoon.

Stop running the other 2 bulbs just run the 6500's

Try to keep your Phosphates at about 10% or your Nitrates, so if your nitrates are 10 your phosphates should be no higher than 1.


Not sure why you use these, salts from seachem to reinstablish natural values of the tank. (Seachem equilibrium and seachem alkaline buffer)
I never use this stuff.

I use tap water that is dechlorinated with Prime, my water change is about 15 gallons per week on a 25. I put 2 gallons of RO ( Reverse Osmosis) in the 15 that I change. For no real reason it just works and that's the way I have been doing it for years.

I would definitely bump up your water changes to 50% a week. Plants love water changes.

If you were my neighbor I would just give you a bunch of free plants.

Hope this helps.
I will try to do a 50% water change every week or two, it isn't easy because i have to buy RO water at my LFS. My tap water is just horrible, it has no2, phos, silicates, 21 kh and 26 gh if i remember correctly, that's why i use salts from seachem, i just remineralize RO water to make sure i don't have any problem in the tank water.

Today i have also modified my lighting unit.
Nowit is set to 7.30 hours with just two 24 watt 6500 kelvin tubes, and the light covers all the tank area. (Previously my tubess weren't symmetrical so i just modified them to have the position i wanted.)

I also removed my Rowa phos resin, and i hope my phos value goes up by his own, otherwise i should dose some phos, maybe from flourish comprehensive ? Anyway i think i will just wait a week before adding any phos.

And thank you for the kindness, i would love some of your plants but i think there are more than 2000 miles from my house to yours ahahah:)

Holy smokes. That's some pretty healthy BBA. Probably not what you want to hear. Anyway, ditto to all the comments before me. Too much light would be the main culprit, but at the same time "too much light" is relative to the co2 you have. You claim to have 30ppm. How are you measuring this? By drop checker only? Your 4dkh drop checker solution may be off and giving you green before its 30ppm. There's a few other methods to check for co2. You can find a couple here.. http://www.theaquatools.com/co2-calculations. However, no matter which method you use, it's not super accurate and is prone to problems that affect the reading. For real accuracy, you really need a pretty expensive co2 meter. Since that's not a reality, you can only strive to have as much co2 as possible without killing the fish by using surface agitation to match your light or cutting down the light until it sort of matches the co2 you have. In addition, how are you actually getting the co2 into the water? Diffuser? Reactor? With a decent sized tank, a diffuser may not be as efficient as a reactor with regards to getting the co2 mixed in.

Unfortunately, BBA that's been established will not easily disappear on its own even if you have the right balance of co2/lights/fertilizers. That's what makes it even harder to figure out. So you'll have to kill it using various methods mentioned above, or just cut the bad leaves off. But be careful with the 1-2 punch if you value your fish. What you have to look at is the new growth to see if they're getting infected fast or not. That way, you'll know if the plants are doing good or not. Plants that are not doing good or old leaves pretty much invite BBA (and other algae). If the new growth of plants is fending off BBA, then you've gained something. Either way, I wanted to point out that you should look into your co2 situation more carefully in addition to all of the above.
I just finished my 1-2 punch treatment, took me all night long, more than 4 hours, but i had everything on schedule and i calculated every dose extremely precise.

Regarding my co2, i use a dropchecker with new liquid solution in it (6 days old solution), and i also estimate my co2 dissolution in water by comparing ph to kh on the famous tab.

Anyway fishes are ok, i don't see any strange behavior, i might be able to bump up co2 a little, but i will probably just wait for your suggestion and do not let my hand adjust the needle valve :wink:

My injection method is a small atomizer and there are no big bubbles going up on the surface, it produces tiny little blubbles , kinda "smokish", that are sucked into my Hydor koralia nano 900Lt/h and pushed all over the tank.

I added the koralia more for the extra flow than to increase co2 dissolution (which is already perfect i think), i just wanted more circulation all around the tank.

I didn't know about BBA loving old leaves, i will definitely look for new leaves and their behavior with BBA, maybe they grow normally :)
It's not a fix, but if you can find a real, actual siamese algae eater, I had good luck with them cleaning up the little BBA I had (also lots of hair and staghorn). In that size tank one at most, and it is a bit small even then (they are not so much large but very fast and active, aggressive eaters, but they do not bother other fish).

At least in the US it is very hard to know whether you are getting real ones, or fakes (fakes = flying fox, chinese algae eaters, and a few others). But I've had very good luck with them cleaning up all sorts of algae.

Again... not a fix -- you need to find the cause. But they can help with the symptoms.
I had 2 SAE before, i studied about the species and the morphology, i was 100% sure there were legit SAE, but as far as i saw, my angelfishes were much more interested in eating algae than those SAE, and as you know angelfishes aren't the best algae eater ahah:tongue:


Today i also crafted 2 metal hooks that i will attach to my stand in order to be able to raise my lighting unit. I'll post some pics when i am done with them.

Here is an overall pic after water change and 1-2 punch method.

BBa seems much more gray than usual. I hope they die in a matter of days, and i also hope i won't have any ammonia strikes because i will leave in a day and i can't monitor the tank from saturday afternoon to monday evening.

I think that's pretty much it, and this is also the 3rd time i write this post because stupid tapatalk is just saying "post sent correctly" and then i cannot see any reply on the topic, i lost more than an hour writing this down for the 3rd time ahahah.

Sorry again for my English i am trying to do my best and thanks a lot to all of you for your help and suggestions, those are really precious ! :D
 
#9 ·
I have a 25 gallon with a Zoomed light with 2 T5 ho's 24 watts each.

I run the light for 8 hours a day.

No Co2

And I dose dry ferts 1/32 teaspoon Nitrate
1/32 tsp phosphate and 1/32 tsp potassium sulfate on water change day which is about 65% because this tank is full of little baby plecos probably 40 right now but the numbers go up and down because I sell them. Also have several hundred Cherry shrimp. Day after water change I dose Micros 1/32 tsp, I also dose Seachem Liquid Iron on days that I dose Micros, generally just twice a week though the bottle I believe says dose 1 ML per gallon I dose around 15 ML twice a week.

So I dose Macros 3 times a week and Micros 3 times a week then wait a day and do another water change.

Tank is full of plants and thriving, also have a Eheim 2026 for lots of flow, pump output is 251 gph

If I were you with a tank so small I would just trim all plants with any algae, they should come back just fine. Start dosing dry ferts, depending on stock you could definitely dose double nitrate, (1/16) or up to (1/8 ) teaspoon.

Stop running the other 2 bulbs just run the 6500's

Try to keep your Phosphates at about 10% or your Nitrates, so if your nitrates are 10 your phosphates should be no higher than 1.


Not sure why you use these, salts from seachem to reinstablish natural values of the tank. (Seachem equilibrium and seachem alkaline buffer)
I never use this stuff.

I use tap water that is dechlorinated with Prime, my water change is about 15 gallons per week on a 25. I put 2 gallons of RO ( Reverse Osmosis) in the 15 that I change. For no real reason it just works and that's the way I have been doing it for years.

I would definitely bump up your water changes to 50% a week. Plants love water changes.

If you were my neighbor I would just give you a bunch of free plants.

Hope this helps.
 
#10 ·
Holy smokes. That's some pretty healthy BBA. Probably not what you want to hear. Anyway, ditto to all the comments before me. Too much light would be the main culprit, but at the same time "too much light" is relative to the co2 you have. You claim to have 30ppm. How are you measuring this? By drop checker only? Your 4dkh drop checker solution may be off and giving you green before its 30ppm. There's a few other methods to check for co2. You can find a couple here.. http://www.theaquatools.com/co2-calculations. However, no matter which method you use, it's not super accurate and is prone to problems that affect the reading. For real accuracy, you really need a pretty expensive co2 meter. Since that's not a reality, you can only strive to have as much co2 as possible without killing the fish by using surface agitation to match your light or cutting down the light until it sort of matches the co2 you have. In addition, how are you actually getting the co2 into the water? Diffuser? Reactor? With a decent sized tank, a diffuser may not be as efficient as a reactor with regards to getting the co2 mixed in.

Unfortunately, BBA that's been established will not easily disappear on its own even if you have the right balance of co2/lights/fertilizers. That's what makes it even harder to figure out. So you'll have to kill it using various methods mentioned above, or just cut the bad leaves off. But be careful with the 1-2 punch if you value your fish. What you have to look at is the new growth to see if they're getting infected fast or not. That way, you'll know if the plants are doing good or not. Plants that are not doing good or old leaves pretty much invite BBA (and other algae). If the new growth of plants is fending off BBA, then you've gained something. Either way, I wanted to point out that you should look into your co2 situation more carefully in addition to all of the above.
 
#11 ·
It's not a fix, but if you can find a real, actual siamese algae eater, I had good luck with them cleaning up the little BBA I had (also lots of hair and staghorn). In that size tank one at most, and it is a bit small even then (they are not so much large but very fast and active, aggressive eaters, but they do not bother other fish).

At least in the US it is very hard to know whether you are getting real ones, or fakes (fakes = flying fox, chinese algae eaters, and a few others). But I've had very good luck with them cleaning up all sorts of algae.

Again... not a fix -- you need to find the cause. But they can help with the symptoms.
 
#15 ·
I cannot post anything on the forum quoting someone or with a picture in the post, dont know why, i have tried more than 3 times and spent more than 2 hours, who do I need to contact to solve this problem ?

Anyway I will just try to answer without quoting anyone.

I have modified my lighting unit, now I have two 24 watt 6500 k tubes, turned ON for 7.30 hours that covers all the tank area, now it is perfect, (Previously the tubes weren't symmetrical so by leaving just two tubes ON I had light just on the right or left side of the tank.)don't know if I have to change the tubes tho, maybe they are a little old? I bought them last November .

I will try to do atleat a 50% water change every week or two. It is not easy because I have to buy RO water at my LFS, and I use seachem salts to rimeneralize it because my tap water is just full of crap, no2 phos silicate 21 kh and so on.

I have also removed my rowa phos resin, I hope my phos value now goes up on his own, otherwise I may need to reintegrate it, maybe with flourish comprehensive ?

Regarding co2 my drop checker has new liquid in it. And I also estimate the amount of co2 I have by looking at the ph-kh tab.

I use an atomizer for co2 diffusion, it produces tiny little bubbles that seem like smoke, they are then sucked into my koralia nano and pushed all over the tank. Actually there are no bubbles going up and popping on the surface, so I can say my co2 dissolution is very good !

My fishes are ok with it, so I might be able to bump it up a little bit, maybe until I see some yellowish color on the DC.

I also crafted two hooks that I will attach to my stand, this way I will be able to raise the lighting unit as I want, I will post picture when I am done with the project.

Finished also my 1-2 punch method. Took me all night long but I had everything on schedule and calculated every dose extremely precise. I am pretty much happy with the results, water was cloudy but because of the salts of the water change, most of the bba seems to be different, not a blackish color, more like a light gray now, I hope they die in a matter of days because I cannot monitor the tank from tomorrow until Monday, I hope I won't have any ammonia strikes when I am away.

Regarding last post, I had 2 SAE, I studied the species and the morphology, I was 100% sure they were legit SAE, but actually I failed, they didn't touch a single algae , even my angelfishes were much more interested in algae than those SAE were.

Anyway thank you all once again, your help and suggestions are really really precious to me !!!
 
#16 ·
Add some floating plants
 
#20 ·
Grey is a good start for killing it off.

I'm surprised that spot treating with Excel didn't have impact. I have had good luck with spot treating Clado and BBA directly with Excel. I'm using 5 mL in my 40 L tank with the filter turned off. The Excel is placed directly on the algae using a syringe and leave the filter off for 20 minutes.

Typically a single spot treatment kills the bulk of the BBA and clado within 3 days. A second treatment followed by waiting a week usually finishes it off.

Best of luck, we all understand the frustration. :(
 
#24 ·
UPDATE

Most BBA are gone, there are still some on older leaves, I might shoot em with an h2o2 syringe...don't know yet.

The cause of my BBA explosion was the light, too much of it.

Since I have turned off 2 of the 4 T5 tubes, the situation started to get better.

At the moment I have only 2 tubes at 4 inches from the surface, according to PAR chart on a 16inches tall aquarium , I am at "high" light situation, am I right ?

Since I have finished my hooks for the lighting unit I might raise from 4 to 10 inches the lighting unit, so I will be able to use 4 tubes, and by doing this I will be able to use different kelvin rates instead of just 2 tubes 6500 kelvin, what is your opinion? Good idea or i just leave as it is now?

 
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