What worm is this? (several pics)

[Overfloater]

Since you identified the parasite, did you figure out what the hole was?

[Complexity]

Originally Posted by mistergreen

Yup, I think you found it. So these guys are the cysts in your cardinals too.
I've killed planarian with levamisole before so maybe it'll wipe these guys.

Seems like a carrier for these are ramshorn snails. I'd remove any I see.

Yeah, I believe these are the the same thing that I've seen in my cardinal tetras for all these years. (For those who don't know what I'm talking about, I'm referencing this old thread: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=70100.) This explains why those spots would never disappear, but also never harmed the fish and never were contagious. They're "grubs" just waiting for the fish to be eaten so they can continue the next stage of their life-cycle which can't happen in an indoor aquarium. I had no idea I'd resolve this old mystery when I found the dead oto!

I don't have any ramshorn snails so these grubs are already on the fish when they're caught from the wild. That also explains why I only saw them on my cardinal tetras since they're generally wild caught (just like otos). My guess is that they start out too small to be visible to the naked eye, but develop large enough to be seen over time. If I ever have a cardinal die that has one of those spots, I will most definitely open it up to confirm the diagnosis.

One of the articles I posted (I think it's the Skeptical Aquarist article) stated that you can't kill these grubs so I don't think there's any point in dosing anything in the tank specifically for them. However, if you have to dose the tank for another reason, please let me know if you see any affects. I think the main course of treatment, if one is desired, would be to open up the cyst and physically remove the grub. Since the grub isn't causing a lot of damage to the fish, it would only cause a surface wound on the fish from which the fish should be able to heal as long as protected from secondary infection.

[Complexity]

Originally Posted by driftwoodhunter

I subscribed to this thread immediately after you started it, I'm so glad I did! The fact that you added the illustration is icing on the cake - I love visuals, although the pics of the parasite did creep me out - lol.

The line I quoted is by far my favorite. It seems so rare not to have to worry about a whole tank infestation...


Thank you for taking the time and the diligence to share all of this info to us : )

Thanks! I bought my microscope a few months back and have really enjoyed having it. There is no way I could have identified this worm (grub) without it.

If you think pictures of the grub creeped you out, just imagine how I felt. I pulled that oto out of my 75g tank! I know all about using a QT, but chose not to for a number of reasons, and then had to face the sinking feeling that I may have royally screwed up my entire tank. You have no idea how relieved I was when I read the part about the grub being unable to complete its life cycle in the tank. Whew! I escaped a bullet with this one.

I think the other really interesting thing about this is that it shows it's not a good idea to immediately start dumping medicines into a tank at the first sight of something foreign since, as in this case, meds may not only be ineffective, but also be unnecessary.

Originally Posted by Overfloater

Since you identified the parasite, did you figure out what the hole was?

Yeah, that's the grub's mouth/anus/opening. I could see it much better when I was able to view the grub upside down (which is where the hole opens up). I ran across a pic that labeled all the parts, including the hole. If I can find it again, I'll post it. That hole was very helpful with the final identification of the grub.

[Complexity]

Well, I can't find a labeled picture of the Clinostomum grub, but in general, the hole is called a "sucker". All Trematodes appear to have at least one of them. You can see them labeled in the pics on this page: http://dc368.4shared.com/doc/Xlm9X6SI/preview.html

Here's a good picture of the structure of the Clinostomum grub. You can see how well defined the sucker is. I was able to see it very clearly under the microscope, including the triangle opening with the round structure surrounding it.



Picture source: http://dailyparasite.blogspot.com/20...arginatum.html

[wkndracer]

1st flubendazole, 2nd levaisole both can be water column dosed in planted tanks and most everything's covered for parasites.

[Complexity]

Originally Posted by wkndracer

1st flubendazole, 2nd levaisole both can be water column dosed in planted tanks and most everything's covered for parasites.

Thanks, but treatment is not only ineffective, but unnecessary in this case since the grubs cannot complete their life cycle in an aquarium.

[Williak]

Very informative and excellent investigation! Now I feel bad for not autopsying all my passed fish

[ETK]

I know this thread is a bit old, but do you think this is the same as what I am dealing with? There is some nasty thing in the gills of one of my black phantom tetras.

Anything I can do to confirm or rule it out?

Since my fish isn't dead, is there anything i can do for it?

Thanks.

[VAtanks]

Fluke treatment is carried out using potassium permanganate. You can either bathe the sick fish in a potassium permanganate solution (10mg per litre water) for about 20-30 minutes or treat the entire holding [COLOR=black! important][COLOR=black! important]tank[/COLOR][/COLOR]. Treating the entire tank will help make sure that you kill all flukes and help you avoid a new fluke problem, but it will be a little messy as potassium permanganate will color the water in the aquarium. Despite this I recommend the later option as it is safer and doesn't involving catching the sick fish and subjecting it to extra stress, and because it helps make sure that all flukes are eradicated.


quoted from http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/disease/flukes.php

[VAtanks]

warning though adding potassium permanganate to your tank will turn your water pink...to almost a purple color the higher the concentration.

[ETK]

Thanks for the recommendation. I have some praziquantel that I ordered a few days ago -- i think i will try that since it is also supposed to work on flukes.