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8 gallon journal

11K views 54 replies 12 participants last post by  Dan110024 
#1 · (Edited)
My 8 gallon rimless. It's been through two stages. The first attempt crashed when I used the wrong dry ferts (bought from a hydroponics store, who apparently don't use the same potassium nitrate as we do). Second attempt is under way. Changed the layout a bit due to flaws in the layout the first time round.

Equipment
Filter: Eheim 2215
Light: Maxspect Razor Nano
Heater: Fluval Tronic 100w (DIY inline)
CO2: CO2PRO Professional
CO2 reactor: Cerges' DIY

Flora
Limnophila sp Mini Vietnam
Lindernia Rotundifolia Variegated
Bacopa sp. Japan
Hemianthus Callitrichoides
Eleocharis Acicularis (may soon be swapped for something more bushy)
Hemianthus Glomeratus
Substrate - Aqua Soil Amazonia

Fauna
Red Cherry shrimp
Some other kind of shrimp - Some clear, a couple brown


14/09/2014 - A couple of weeks in of dry start


21/09/2014 - Filled


29/09/2014 - Last photo, days before it crashed due to inappropriate ferts. Notice the eleocharis not growing behind the rock...bit of a design flaw in my scape.


01/12/2014 - A bit of time went by....eventually got it rescaped and replanted. It's had a pretty extreme prune a couple of days before this photo, trying to reset things now that I have a proper fertilisers now. Eleocharis still isn't growing. Keen to get something bushy in place of it. It also needs some glass lilly pipes. Just not sure how to go about it with shrimp.


28/12/2014 - Replaced Eleocharis Acicularis with Blyxa Japonica

Plumbing
 
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#34 · (Edited)
I ripped everything out of the tank on the weekend, leaving only the substrate. I saved some of the HC and the Eleocharis which seemed to survive the apocalypse. I thought all of the Hemianthus Glomeratus (HG) had died, but I think I found one shoot which was hanging in there. It could be HC, but it's where the HG was planted and they both look similar when shoots are young.

It's been 24 hours and the water is still cloudy. I must have flushed through close to 150 litres of water after playing around. I found that adding a constant supply of water to the tank while draining water from the hose going into the filter is quite an effective way of changing water.

I'm wondering what my canister filter (Eheim 2215) looks like. I haven't cleaned it out since I filled the tank which was 5 weeks ago. I was meaning to do it after 4 weeks, but put it off while I was deciding what I would do with the tank after it crashed. It must have so much gunk in it from the rotted plants. I didn't want to disturb the biological filter at such a crucial point with all the rotting matter in the tank. Whatever biological filter is growing down in there, it isn't battering an eyelid with all the ammonia which must be getting created. My Seneye tells me my ammonia levels have constantly sat on .001ppm this whole time, with an exception of when the tank first crashed and spiked to .003ppm. That's with only 50% water changes once a week. I will be cleaning the filter out tomorrow night hopefully. I'll take photos.

When replanting, didn't have much to work with, aside from the Eleocharis which seemed to survive (even though it was barely growing). I had a little more plant but I chose only the best of the healthiest shoots to give them a good chance. I don't like the hardscape as much as my previous one, but the big rock just wasn't going to work with a single point light.





I may buy some Bacopa Japan to place between the two rocks on the left, in a similar setup to what I initially had.




The two shoots that may or may not be Hemianthus Glomeratus. On further inspection, I think it might be HG. The leaves do look different to the HC.




 
#35 · (Edited)
So....I'm pretty sure I've found out what killed my plants... Just realise that my information probably isn't entirely correct as I had a hard time following the guy I was speaking to, but it might be something to look into for some people.

I was in my local fish shop today, talking to a bloke who seemed to be pretty up with planted tanks and fertilisers. When I say 'seemed to be'....I mean he was a wealth of knowledge and knew the science very well. I was discussing the crash of the tank and listed some possible causes. Nothing raised any eyebrows for him, but he agreed it could have been the number of things I listed.

That was until we started talking about what fertilisers I am using and where I got them from. I mentioned that I purchased them from a hydroponics store (which was around the corner from the fish store and which he deals with). Straight away, he realised what the cause of the crash was. The potassium nitrate powders that are used in hydroponics are petroleum based. Or they have something to do with petroleum. He was talking through it quite quickly and I could only take so much in. Either way, the particular powders used in hydroponics are bad for plants in an aquarium setting.

This makes complete sense seeing it crashed within a week of starting the EI dosing with these powders. I've also got an oily film on the top of the water.

From what I understand from what he said, when it's used on hydroponics it's flushed through while an aquarium is recirculating it over and over again. Essentially poisoning the aquarium plants. My current, little shoots seem to be growing (albeit quite slow). Some aren't doing too well and others are ok. I guess the good ones adjusted to it and are pulling through.

I can't remember if he said there is another type of potassium nitrate without the petroleum base (or whatever). I just thought I might let people (the few that might read this) know to think twice before buying their powders from a hydroponics store. He said that the store owner knows that their powders don't go well with aquariums, but unfortunately I wasn't served by that particular gent, so the sales person sold me what I asked for. No blame on him.


I'd love to hear more on this. I've tried searching on google but not getting many/any useful results, probably because I'm not sure on what I'm really searching for.
 
#40 · (Edited)
Ah nice. I'll keep Aquagreen in mind. I picked up some dupla plant 24 while I was at the shop. It's a daily fertiliser. The guy I was talking to used to use it before he started mixing his own ferts and he swore by it. I figured I'd like to get a known product with proven results. Just to get things up and running properly. Maybe once this bottle is empty, I'll check out some ferts from aquagreen.

Haven't got anymore hc. That was all I could really salvage. It is growing though. Slowly but surely. I'm determined to get this small amount into a carpet. There are tiny new shoots popping up in random places. I think it'll have a bit of an achievement/satisfaction value to it lol.

A quick camera phone photo... Having a bit of an algae bloom at the moment, so excuse the state of the tank, but you can see the HC is slowly growing out. . I also picked up 10 cherry shrimp while at the shop to clean up the algae. They've done an awesome job within 24 hours....the middle rock was covered in this algae yesterday which looks like a brown bull dust. I'm just a bit lazy at the moment and haven't cleaned the glass. And also bought some plant (HG I think?) to soak up some excess nutrients while I have a lack of plant mass.





Bump:
I'd love to hear back if you test this out! Best of luck in getting this tank grown back in!

Interesting. I'll do the test when I have some spare time this week and let you know the results. I may have heard wrong, but he definitely mentioned petroleum. I don't want to alarm people with incorrect information, but I was hoping someone like you would pipe up and have a say ;) I'll let you know how it goes.

Bump:
Too much friction in the piping but you figured that out the hard way :p Also, you need steel or glass ware for a more crisp look.

Otherwise a very nice setup and scape. Happy with the maxspect nano?
Yep. As I said, I deal with pipe work within my line of work and don't know why this didn't cross my mind when designing it haha. I've almost finished making my new piping system using 40mm pvc, so it'll be interesting to see the difference. Definitely keen on getting some glass lily pipes. I'm just spending money elsewhere at the moment. $150 is hard to justify for aesthetics right now.

The Maxspect nano is great. More than enough power for my tank. Loving the 6 time points that it has. The only issue I have with it is that it's a single point cluster which didn't suit my first scape with the large rock casting a shadow on some of the plants. That's not really a problem with the light itself, just something that I overlooked when scaping the first time.
 
#38 ·
The petroleum based thing doesn't make sense as potassium nitrate is either mined as crude salt petre and purified or more likely produced by the reaction of nitric acid (produced from molecular nitrogen in the air, not petroleum) with basic potassium salts like potassium hydroxide. Now that last bit is where I think your problem lies.

Here's a test: potassium nitrate is a neutral salt, meaning it won't alter the pH of a water solution when dissolved. If your particular batch of potassium nitrate is contaminated with potassium hydroxide, a basic salt, a rise in pH will be observed. So take some water, preferably distilled or RO since there will be no buffers, and get the resting pH (probably between 6.5 and 7). Now start adding some of your potassium nitrate and stir to dissolve. Solubility of potassium nitrate in water is about 300 grams per liter at room temp, so if you get say 100 mL of water and add 30 grams of potassium nitrate, it should all dissolve. If you measure any change in pH at all, then your friend is partly right and this was likely your problem.

If there's no change in pH then I don't think other common contaminants (potassium carbonate, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, ammonium nitrate, clay, sand... a few more) would have such a dramatic effect on your plants. Unless your potassium nitrate was from a particularly questionable source, I wouldn't think there could be too many contaminants that are that harmful.

I'd love to hear back if you test this out! Best of luck in getting this tank grown back in!
 
#42 · (Edited)
I tested the potassium nitrate (KNO3) today.

I didn't have any untouched distilled water. I used a batch of 4dkh solution that I have for my drop checker. It's made from distilled water and bicarb soda. That should be fine, right? I tested the Ph and I think it was sitting around 8.0/8.2.

I poured 100ml of water into a glass an added the appropriate amount of high range Ph checker. It turned more of a red colour than the brown that was in the test tube. I weighed out 30 grams of my KNO3 and added it to the water.

There was a clear rise in Ph when the KNO3 was added. The water went from its red colour to dark purple immediately.

From what I understand of your post, this means my KNO3 is contaminated or produced in a way which is most likely the cause of the plants dying, right?
 
#44 ·
I haven't picked up anymore dry ferts. I've been using the Dupla Plant 24 that I picked up from the shop last weekend. Directions are 1 drop/50L every 24 hours. My tank is closer to 35-40 litres with little plant mass, so I'm dosing 1 drop every second day. I've still got nearly a full bottle of ADA Step 1, which is essentially trace elements from what I understand, so I'm dosing that every other day.

Day 1 - Plant 24
Day 2 - ADA Step 1 / Trace(?)

I guess I will have to buy some dry ferts when this tiny bottle of Plant 24 runs out. I'll buy from this Aquagreen store that other Australians have recommended instead of a hydroponics shop.
 
#45 · (Edited)
I ordered some plants today, too. I found I'm not as patient as I thought I might be....I really can't be bothered waiting to grow a whole tank of plants from a few shoots. Lol.

Lindernia Rotundifolia Variegated
Limnophila sp Mini Vietnam
Bacopa sp Japan

As well as keeping the Eleocharis Acicularis up in the corner and I've properly planted the extra Hemianthus Glomeratus that I picked up last weekend (was using it as plant mass for the tank).

I'm thinking something like this.... I'm still not sure on the exact positioning of the Limnophila. I might not put it on the right hand side and let the HC grow there. I just got it for a bit of diversity.
(Another crappy phone picture with backdrop not set properly)
 
#49 · (Edited)
Got the new plumbing system in place today. The aim was to increase the dismal flow that my last effort put out. It consisted of way too much 12/16mm Eheim hose and too many bends. There was so much pressure drop throughout the system that the flow was more like a trickle. I think flow was down to around 30 gallon / 120 litres an hour.

I can confirm that the new installation makes the tank a fun ride for the shrimp. Haha. The baby shrimp were in what seemed like a gigantic whirlpool. More than enough flow. I haven't measured it yet. I'm able to adjust the flow with the ball valve which is essentially a bypass valve, recirculating the water through the filter.

I was hoping on neater cabling than what I've ended up with but it's not visible unless you're down under the desk, so it's staying.

The great thing about mounting it on particle board is being able to do most of the fiddly work out in the open rather than crouched underneath the desk. I was also able to test it for leaks, which was lucky because I had a leak from a PVC join. Nothing a bit of silicone can't fix.




I used resin to fix and seal a 4mm poly barb into a corner before my CO2 reactor. If doing it again, I think I would use a brass fitting. The poly seems like it could be broken if knocked hard enough.





I also used the same technique to add a couple of K-type temperature probes into some elbows (wanted before and after heater). Only one of the probes stuck and sealed though. I tried putting more resin in it (didn't work) and also tried setting a pool of PVC glue in it (also didn't work). I guess the one that did work could be a little dodgy, so I set some PVC glue on the outside of the elbow and down into the hole for good measure. I probably wouldn't recommend it doing it. I have a small temperature unit that takes K-type probes that I will mount on the board, just need a battery.

 
#50 · (Edited)
Plants arrived today. Unfortunately they took longer than expected in the post and were probably sitting in a hot warehouse over the weekend with a couple of hot days here. It took one week which would normally take just a few days (Victoria to South Australia). That's what I get for being tight and only paying for the $2 standard shipping from the ebay seller I guess.

I got...
Limnophila sp Mini Vietnam
Lindernia Rotundifolia Variegated
Bacopa sp. Japan

The Limnophila only just survived the week long trip. I managed to use about half of it which is all I needed anyway. Hopefully it bounces back and turns the lime green like I've seen in other tanks.

It looks like I'll need to wait for the Lindernia Rotundifolia to grow before I can take some trimmings and fill out the back corner a little more. I'm wanting a bush that completely covers the area behind the rock.

The Bacopa Japan....I'm no expert, but I'm not sure that it's the Japan species. I had it in the first setup and I don't remember the leaves being so big. I'm also looking at some other photos online and they look slightly smaller too. Maybe the leaves squashed out as they lost moisture in delivery. They are quite thin and delicate at the moment. I'll see how it goes...not too happy with the look of it at the moment.

Seeing the Eleocharis Acicularis hasn't gone as well as I hoped, I'm wondering if I swap it out for some sort of Ludwigia for a fuller look. I'm envisioning the Eleocharis to be this big thick bush of swaying grass....but I'm not sure it's going to turn out that way. I'll give it a couple of months and see what happens.


I'm getting lazy with photos these days...phone cameras are just too convenient over my SLR. When I have a tank worth photographing properly, I'll do some decent photos.



On a side note... I was feeding the shrimp some boiled zucchini and carrot last night (I've never boiled water for such a small meal...3 slices of each) and I managed to count 34 baby and adolescent shrimp. I started with 10 adults a couple of weeks ago, a few being pregnant. THIRTY FOUR! And there's another shrimp holding eggs. If water parameters are all good, what is the success rate for all of them reaching maturity? I guess I won't have too much of an algae problem from now on...


To buy list:
Lilly pipes (on that note...how do you stop baby shrimp being ingested by the filter with lilly pipes?)
Frosted contact for background
 
#51 ·
I ordered a Nimble Nano magnetic cleaner a while ago... It finally arrived today. Love it! I knew it was going to be small, but it really is small! Just what I want. Now I can clean the glass behind the plants without ripping them out in the process. Definitely recommend this little thing.



I also emailed the guy who sold the plants, asking about the Bacopa Japan being quite large. He said that there is currently other plants shading some of the light to the Bacopa, so it's growing larger leaves to compensate. Makes sense. I've trimmed it back quite a bit to encourage new growth and hopefully get the leaf size down.
 
#53 ·
From the guys website who's product it is. Good customer service too. Mine never arrived initially. I emailed him asking about it after 6 weeks and he sent another one straight away. It was still a few weeks, but it got here in the end. The tracking shows the first one got lost or something.

http://www.nimblenano.com/Welcome.html

$12.98US, which is damn cheap compared to some of the other units out there.
 
#55 ·
I was at my LFS yesterday for an unrelated purpose and I came across some Blyxa Japonica. I thought it would perfectly replace the Eleocharis which isn't growing (lack of flow and light I think). Turns out it does indeed suit the corner very well. Looking forward to seeing what it will be like in a month or two time. The guy at the LFS who helps me out was saying that he finds a lot of people fail with the Blyxa, so this is has made me determined to make it work. I've moved the filter intake behind the Blyxa to increase flow through the area (I'm thinking it was a bit of a dead spot before) and it helps hide the ugly foam I've got hanging off it.

I really need to get some glass lilly tubes. Just trying to figure out how to make them shrimp friendly while maintaining aesthetic appeal.

Really happy with the purchase. It's made the whole tank look so much more lush. Just need to be patient and wait for everything else to grow in. The bush of HG is going crazy, though. It constantly pearls and grows quite rapidly. I'm hoping the Limnophila gets going and hides the base of the Blyxa.

 
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