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21 Feb update to the saga...I'm about ready to quit trying shrimp...

13K views 126 replies 36 participants last post by  dthb4438 
#1 · (Edited)
I don't get it. My parameters all fall in line With everybody's advice and I still keep losing shrimp in the 10 gallon tank. I just got 6 nice Blues from a local LFS and they're all gone in a week. Out of the 2 broods of Cherries I had, there are only about 10-15 juvies left. I have 1 Bee and 2 "Black Cherries" left out of 4 of each. The Bee is finally saddled and now I don't even have a mate for her. I can grow snails reall well...:icon_roll :angryfire

Tommy
 
#42 ·
I've about had it. I just got 4 more Cherries, 3 of them were berried. 1 week later and I can only find 1, and the eggs are gone. Can't find babies anywhere. 3 out of 4 of the cheapo Ghost shrimp died. 2 of them were berried, eggs disappeared. I don't know if they're freshwater breeders or not. My 2 black Cherries that I moved in from the 58 are fine. They're probably about a year old. Parameters are OK (I think):

Copper- 0
Ammonia- 0
Nitrate- 10-15
Nitrite- 0
Gh 1-2*
Kh-11*
Ph 7.6 Temp 76-78*

I'm really getting frustrated with this whole thing. it's like the tank is cursed.

Tommy
 
#44 ·
Well, that last Female is DOA as of 09:00 today. On the flip side, when the lights came on I did see 1 baby. The lone Ghost & the 2 Black Cherries seem fine.:icon_ques Time for a 20% H2O change & if I can get up the courage, back to get more shrimp.

Tommy
 
#45 · (Edited)
The more I think about it, the more I believe it's time to try some Cherries from a different population. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the ones I've been getting so far, just that it seems wierd that the year old Black Cherries and most of the Ghosts I have gotten came from 2 different LFS' than where I got most of my Cherries, so maybe the particular strain of Cherries I've been getting may not tolerate my tank's conditions as well as some of the others.

I just got 3 Cherries from another trusted LFS. They cost a little more than Evan's, but hey, what can you do? Let's see how they do!

I also am trying a small experiment. Evan told me he doesn't use new H2O for the WC's in the shrimp tank. He said he takes it from one of the planted tanks. I just did a 30% WC and replaced it with H2O from the 58. In the AM before the CO2 comes on the 58 has the same baseline Ph as the shrimp tank & it's at the same temp. I checked the 58 for Nitrates & Ammonia first. The Nitrates are around 5 and the Ammonia is 0. Looks like I need to be a teeny bit more closely scheduled on the 58 WC's (I've skipped at least 2 this month) so maybe I can get that last 5 ppm of Nitrate down. I'll keep updating.

Tommy <9))>>{
 
#46 ·
Have you tested for phosphates by chance? That's one thing I don't see a test result for.

I see you tested for copper (zero is good), and hardness. I don't know how hard my water is but I believe it is on the soft side and my shrimp all do fine. But again I do put cuttlebones in the tanks along with unfinished sea shells.

Do you fertilize your tank with the RCS? I noticed when I add liquid fertilizer for aquariums, that if any RCS get caught in the undiluted fertilizer (it's yellow) I soon have a dead RCS in that tank later in the day. Perhaps the fertilizer is making them sick.

Do you add iodine? If so, don't. It's poisonous to freshwater shrimp.
 
#48 ·
How new is the tank? I remember talking to a local pleco breeder that the tank he used from a certain local manufacturer kept killing his fish. He assumes it was the silicone used. He eventually soaked/rinsed/cleaned it with vinegar, which I guess, nuetralized whatever chemical was around and used it again. Fish were fine after that. Therefore, I'm thinking it might be the same as well.
 
#49 ·
Bulrush, spypet, crazie.eddie-

I have never tested this tank for phosphates, but I did test the 58 once and IIRC, it was low to very low. I will test it tonight. The tank is not dosed with anything. It's as low tech as you get. Fluorite, live plants, 15w fluorescent hood, heater & HOB Penguin filter.

Thery shrimp molt fine.

The tank is at least 20 years old, if not 30.

Tommy <9))>>{
 
#50 ·
So how is the new shrimps doing?
The old water idea is interesting. Now that you mention it, I do remember that's how a start out and it worked very well. But that was a long long time ago and I've stop doing it since.
Anyway, out of the 6 shrimp tanks that I have, 1 off them is a death tank as well. It wasn't like that before. But every since I OD is with Excel, it's been a death tank every since. And that was almost a year ago.
There was a rumour going around that anubia nana petite was the culprit and I have to admit, I have one in this tank. You won't happen to have one in your tank as well would you?
 
#51 ·
So far, so good. I can't get a real accurate head count because of the hiding skills, but out of about a dozen cherries I can usuallly find at least 6 or 7, and have not found any obvious corpses. I DO have an Anubia, definitely a Nana variety, but I don't know if it's petite or not as it was stolen from the 58 and I don' remember.

Tommy <9))>>{
 
#54 ·
That's about it. No more new shrimp for me. It's been a couple of months more of nothing but frustration and disappointment. It seems all I am capable of doing with this tank is keep 2 female wild color Cherries. They've been in there since I set this deathtank up, no problems. Any other shrimp I try just die. I friggin' quit. Someone please explain to me how I can keep any kind of shrimp I want in the 58, but they eventually get eaten, but nothing lives in the 10 gallon with the same H2O, substrate, plants and temp?:angryfire

Tommy <9))>>{
 
#55 ·
I know you've already tested for copper, but I've read on here many times that test kits aren't always accurate. And maybe the copper test kit IS accurate, but only tests for levels safe for a fish tank and can't read very low levels that would be toxic to shrimp? I've read here about tanks being "death tanks" for shrimp after having been treated with a copper parasite treatment. Since that tank is 20+ or so years old, could that be your problem here? If it is, it would make sense that the wild cherries live but the reds don't ~ red cherries are a genetic morph of the wild and, as with most if not all genetic morphs, the morph is more delicate than the original. Think about koi ~ wild carp are incredibly tough, but koi can be so dang touchy and get sick at the drop of a hat.

If you're willing to give this another go, go get a brand new ten dollar 10g tank (that's what I have my cherries in ~ cheapo tank from Petsmart), brand new substrate (or maybe try none this time just for grins?), etc., and I'll send you some cherries to put in it to try again. I have gobs at the moment and would love to help you try this again. I also have lots of water sprite in the tank they're currently in and can send you some of that as well as a few cuttings of the other plants in there. Shrimp keeping is so interesting I'd hate for you to miss out! :( So, wanna' give it another go? Think about it and let me know. :D
 
#56 ·
Thank you for the offer & support, Linda. I might just take you up on that. I'm beginning to think along the same lines of your theory about the weaker genetics combined with the trace meds. I can't say with absolute certainty that the tank hasn't been dosed somewhere in time. It's just hard to believe the tiny amounts of meds in the silicone of a tank that's been dry for so long could be detrimental.

I gotta see if the wife will let me get away with the new tank. I know it's only $10, but we're not exactly rolling in $$ right now. She's been telling me to give up on the shrimp tank and just keep it as a quarantine tank from now on.

Right now I'm just gonna see how things go.

Tommy <9))>>{
 
#57 ·
Yeah, I understand ~ it's only ten bucks for the tank, but then it's more for the heater or the substrate or the ... It all adds up, doesn't it? Especially if you're not lucky enough to have untreated well water like me and have to do RO. Ugh!

Just food for thought for you ~ my shrimp tank has zero equipment except for a 15w spiral flourescent in one of those metal cone lamps (other light comes from dappled sunlight through a window, so the 15w is mostly just for nighttime viewing). I don't have a heater, no air line, no CO2 or anything. I almost put a filter on it, but decided against that as well. I started reading about low tech shrimp tanks and decided to try them out to the limit ~ moved a few shrimp out of the main tank and into another so if my experiment fails I'll still have a population, and have let everything in there go ~ only topping off the water and feeding sparingly. It's been a month and so far it's great! Crystal clear water, Ammonia and Nitrite/ate have been consistently zero. I'm excited! I'll be keeping a close eye on the water quality, hoping it stays this way. :D And I'll be pulling more shrimp out of there soon as well. Other than that, I'm going to try to leave it alone and see what happens.
 
#58 ·
Update 29 Jul

Here we go again. Getting the NEW 10 gallon tank today. I got a $5.00 off aquarium products coupon from Petsmart, so it'll be a no-brainer at $4.99. At CampCreekTexas' advice, I'm gonna dump the plants, driftwood, substrate & start from scratch.

CampCreekTexas, you have a PM.

Tommy <9))>>{
 
#59 ·
Just a thought, are you using offspring from your shrimp in the 58 to populate your new 10?

I've read a lot of things that I'm supposedly doing wrong with my shrimp tank so I guess I've been lucky (knocks on wood). I'm just throwing this out there so that you'll know what may or may not be the problem.

My tank is 8 gallons, Aquasoil substrate, planted, no CO2. I dose Excel and other Ferts using EI. I change 50% of the water every week, straight from the tap. I know I have copper piping because I saw the construction. I add about 1-2ml of Prime (not shaken nor stirred) per water change (pour into the bucket) - that's 2-4X over the necessary dose.

I started out with about 15 cherries about 3 months ago and now I have maybe 60 in there. I sold about 50 in the last month. I've also had 12 higher grade CRS shrimp in there for close to 2 months now and they are at breeding size right now, but no berried shrimps yet. I added another 10 CRS yesterday. There's also a lone Caridina gracilirostris in there, doing fine. I think I've lost between 3-5 shrimp total - the majority of which are suicides from jumping out of the rimless tank.

I don't know why you're having such difficulties even with all the hard work you're putting in, but hopefully, with the new tank, substrate, driftwood, etc, your persistence will pay off. :)

Oh, I'm sure you already do this, but I have Aquarium only buckets. No cleaning solutions, no bleach, no anything in the buckets except for things that came out of a tank or are going into a tank. Maybe you should get a new bucket as well - HD has cheap orange ones. Good luck!
 
#60 ·
Just a thought, are you using offspring from your shrimp in the 58 to populate your new 10?

Good luck!

There are no offspring in the 58 due to predation. That's why I set up the 10 gallon Shrimper in the first place.:icon_lol:

Tommy <9))>>{
 
#61 ·
Theres probably more copper in the water than you might think.

I had the same problem (still do in a sense).
I started using one of those Brita pitchers (with the filter that eliminates copper) and then add enough baking soda and epsom salt to bring ph to 7.2-7.4 and that reduced my death rate tremendously.
I am considering a ro unit though, to be sure that I am getting the best water possible.
 
#62 ·
Theres probably more copper in the water than you might think.[\QUOTE]


Copper tests @ 0 with multiple kits. I'm going with the "bad tank" theory.

Tommy <9))>>{
 
#63 ·
Well, I just got back from a week long vacation. Now it's time to tear down the "death tank", set up the new tank and get it going. I'm going to use some Schultz' pond soil that I have had leftover from an old patio water garden project. Everyone tells me it's more or less the same as SMS. It's kinda light red, but it's what I've got. Gonna get some new plants on trade for some cuttings from the 58, a nice big piece of driftwood, new cartridge and biowheel for the filter and then here we go!

Tommy <9))>>{
 
#64 ·
Good luck. I'm just curious why you're using Schultz' pond soil? I would figure that if I were running into such bad luck, I would not make big changes between the 58 and the new tank. Other than the size and lighting, I would more likely want to keep both tanks the same.
 
#65 ·
I'm using the Schultz just because I had it. If you have a reason not to use the Schultz, I'm not going to think twice about not using it, I'll get something new. I originally used the same Fluorite as in the 58. I don't think the substrate was a factor as I had the same exact problems even when the shrimp tank was bare bottomed.

Tommy <9))>>{
 
#66 ·
Well, the new tanks is set up, it's empty except for the 2 wild form Cherries & they're happily exploring (the void :icon_lol: ) & eating algae pellets.

Tommy <9))>>{
 
#67 ·
Added some nice driftwood last nite. Pictures to be added soon. I think I'll make this more of a journal this time.

Tommy <9))>>{
 
#68 ·
Nice to hear that you're giving it another try. That's very nice of Linda(Camp...).
Just another update from my part. I gave my own death tank another try as well. And it seems more promissing this time. The funny thing is, I stop doing water changes to this tank, it's fully planted with snails any way. I stop dose it with ferts for about 4 months now. The shrimps seems to be doing fairly well. I can't explain it, but stopping my water changes seems to have worked beter than weekly water change!
 
#73 ·
Can't wait to see those pics and hear more, Tommy, but only when you get a chance. Talking to you on the phone makes me think you're like me ~ LOADS on your plate right now. Better than being bored, eh? ;)

I did get your phone message that the RCS arrived safely. Glad to hear it! And thanks for the kind words ~ it's no problem, really. :biggrin: I'm just payin' it forward...

Got my fingers crossed that they're all still doing well and will be breeding for you soon.



That's very nice of Linda(Camp...).
Aw, shucks. *digs toe in dirt*
Just another update from my part. I gave my own death tank another try as well. And it seems more promissing this time.
Still promising? Or better than promising I hope?

The funny thing is, I stop doing water changes ... I can't explain it, but stopping my water changes seems to have worked beter than weekly water change!
Isn't that wild?! That's what I found out as well when I stopped doing it. It's been, oh ... I don't know ... two months? Three months? since I've done a water change and my RCS seem even REDDER than before! Of course I also stopped feeding so darn much about the same time, so that probably contributed to it as well. And as I watch this tank more and cogitate/ruminate while I do, I might notice other things that may be causing this and/or had a hand in it. But for now, I'm just happy I've got a HEALTHY shrimp tank. :proud:
 
#69 ·
Yes, CampCreekTexas has been wonderful about this! Members like her are what makes PT.net such a great site!

Many, many thanks, Linda!!

Day 2 and no deaths. ;) :icon_lol:

Tommy <9))>>{
 
#72 ·
Sorry, everyone! I've been really busy with the upcoming schools opening day. Everyone seems OK so far. There was 1 death last week, but the shrimp that died was already "opaque" when he went in. If there's been any others, I haven't seen the corpses. :thumbsup: Pic's soon ( I hope).

Tommy <9))>>{
 
#74 ·
Well, still going strong. I now have at least three saddled cherries. I'm suprised they're saddled at their current size. I guess in the 10 gallon tank they don't get as big as they used to in the 58. They were usually at least 3/4" before they were saddled in the 58. In the 10 some of them are only 3/8" at best.

I know, I know, "where are the pictures?!"

I still haven't gotten any. Sorry!


Tommy <9))>>{
 
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