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Stocking Help 180 Gallon (Updated)

19K views 102 replies 19 participants last post by  sanj 
#1 ·
So, after quite a few years and a large move and various power outages, I've giving up on fixing my tank back to how it was as a reef not long ago. The tank has therefore been turned into a planted freshwater tank.

It's 6ft x 2 ft x 2ft, with a sump, 2 inches of river sand underneath and inch of river pebbles and 8 x 80 t5 lights. I'm using fertilizer tabs instead of a already fertilized substrate due to cost.

At the moment, I just added a few plants, and a couple driftwood peices, as well as 10 Harlequin Barbs.

I really need some stocking advice, though, as it differs so much from the marine stocking I'm used to.

I really really really want some Kribensis cichilids, as they have been a favorite of mine for a while. But the opinions on these are so conflicting. And while I've read though a lot of posts asking if they're suitable community fish, usually the tank is a fair bit smaller and thus I thought that would be reflected in the answers I've read. In my tank, would their aggression be more mild due to space?

I also would love blue and gold rams, though I know they prefer lower pH and higher temps, so that depends on what other fish I get. These also a ground dwelling, and may conflict with the Kribs, but I thought there should be enough space.

I would also like, perhaps, some Discus, a small group as a centre peice.

Other then that, I'm lost in terms of what tetras, barbs, killifish, loaches, rainbow fish and whatever else to get?

What are some better schoolers and what would be the best numbers in my size tank?

Sorry for such a long question, and thanks for any help! Cheers:smile:
 
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#2 ·
If you want Discus which you certainly can with your tank, go and read lots of info about keeping them. Keeping Discus is a bit specialised compared to keeping most other freshwater fish so if Discus is your end goal it makes sense to set everything up with them in mind.

Discus are higher temperature fish, like the German Blue Rams. The somewhat higher temperature required limits what plants you can have as well. If you've been happy keeping a reef I'm sure you'll manage a planted Discus tank esp at that size tank but do read up.

Main problem with kribs if I remember correctly is just that they breed like crazy and get aggressive when breeding.

As for schooling fish, I have penguin tetras and really enjoy them, they are fairly rowdy for a tetra though but do school tightly quite often (also split up and bicker amongst each other when feeling safe).

If I had your tank I'd do a south american themed tank with a group of angelfish, cories on the bottom, a smaller pleco and a shoal of tetras big enough not to get eaten by full grown angelfish. It's a fairly "standard" set up but it's standard for a reason and none of the fish are particularly hard to care for or tricky to deal with.
 
#3 ·
Thank you for the input :) - I have no shortage of reading to do hahaha It's a bit overwhelming, going to Google the name of each fish as I come across it. If I did a higher temperature tank, with rams and discus or other fish with the same temp, pH and hardness requirements, what kind of loaches would suit, as I know cories would be out?

With the Kribs, I was hoping that even if they did spawn they would keep to a pot in the corner and maybe just defend their area but not attack other fish? I'm unsure. I love these little guys, but don't want a random bloodbath.

Also, does the softer water do much for plants? I may be getting confused with the pH/Kh relationship for CO2, but do plants usually prefer harder water?

I saw some Penguin tetras today, they were fairly cute. I also liked the longfin Serpae Tetras, Widow tetras and a few others. But I live in a rural area, local stuff is scarce.

I admit, I'm not a huge fan of Angelfish, though they are regal looking when fully matured. I would also worry about their aggression and getting their fins nipped


Am going to read some more on discus now. My tank sits at about 27 regardless, and I'd be ok with the waterchanges and maintenance, but keeping the water soft could be an issue
 
#4 · (Edited)
Ohkay.. So this is a little list I thought MIGHT work. I've mainly been looking to suit temperature so required pH and hardness might differ. I plant to keep the pH at maybe 6.8, the temp around 28C and the water fairly soft.. I hope haha

I don't have a clue on numbers yet? I couldn't find anywhere if Rams and Kribs prefer to be introduced in small groups or what, but I'm thinking of including the following

A school of Diamond Tetras
A school of either Cardinal or Conchus Blue Tetras
Khuli Loaches
Clown Loaches
Emerald Catfish
Sterbai Cordoras
Otocinclus
Albino Corydoras
German Blue Rams
Gold Rams
Kribensis
Discus (lassttt - centre peice also) I think they;re worth the maintenance and different tank conditions even if it takes months to years before I am comfortable that everything is stable enough.

I fear there are too many bottom dwelling fish, and I also worry about the agression of the rams with the cories. If the cories wont work, then I could use Dwarf Loaches (sidthimunki) as they also tolerate the warmer water up to 30C

So what numbers would you do for these fish? What are the larger clashes? Also, with the Kribs agression, I hoped the emerald catfishes larger size might also help.

Opinions? Feel free to say it's stupid if it really is an impractical list.
 
#5 ·
Rather than a group of small fish, I like larger. Have you considered going with a cichlid tank? A large tank deserves large fish so they will be the center attraction rather than lost. If you have hard alkaline water, it cries out for African cichlids. They come in hundreds of different types so don't let the talk of problems deter you. This is meant to be a learning experience! A male only tank does not have breeding problems!
 
#6 · (Edited)
Thanks for that idea! :) I had considered a cichilid tank. There are some absolutely gorgeous ones. But I really wanted to go planted, it's just so pretty and serene. So most of my favorite cichilids tear up plants. I was hoping discus would be enough of a large center piece for the tank. I'm not sure, but I kind of prefer the mixed community with smaller, intricate details and subtleties to look at for hours, rather than larger fish, despite how beautiful those fish can be.

Also, my parents and brother have predator/cichilid tanks also, so I grew up with them, and am looking for something refreshing. Still.. I can't ignore the little Kribs and Rams, as they're still cichilids I suppose.

Do you have an opinion on the list I posted? In terms of incompatibility or over/under stocking?
 
#7 ·
Instead of several schools of small fish, have you thought of a large school of them. Yes, with plenty of other tankmates. I have a 210 and am pondering the same thing. One large school could act as that center piece. Throw in a couple of larger fish (none that would eat them) and they should stay schooled and will look awesome moving through the tank. I just bought 32 balloon lamp eye tetras and love the tight schooling look. There is a video of them in both my journal and right here in the fish forum. Our tanks have the same foot print, mine is just a tad taller. Doesn't look like that many fish. So either I am going to add a second school of rummynose, or add more to this school.

I have kept kribs in a community planted tank before, and only during mating were the aggressive. Luckily they chose a spot in one of the corners of the tank to have their young. If you do, make sure you give lots of hiding spots.
 
#11 ·
I thought a large school of diamond tetras would be nice.. But I'm not sure what constitutes a 'large' enough number hahah 24? 35? I had looked at the balloon lamp eye tetras after seeing your posts, but they seem to require the lower temperature waters.

What are some higher temperature tetras which school really well?

I'll go have a look at your video now, thanks!

Good to know the Kribs were ok in your tank, would it be safer to just have one? Or would that just be sad for the fish?
 
#8 ·
So, after quite a few years and a large move and various power outages, I've giving up on fixing my tank back to how it was as a reef not long ago. The tank has therefore been turned into a planted freshwater tank.

It's 6ft x 2 ft x 2ft, with a sump, 2 inches of river sand underneath and inch of river pebbles and 8 x 80 t5 lights. I'm using fertilizer tabs instead of a already fertilized substrate due to cost.

At the moment, I just added a few plants, and a couple driftwood peices, as well as 10 Harlequin Barbs.

I really need some stocking advice, though, as it differs so much from the marine stocking I'm used to.

I really really really want some Kribensis cichilids, as they have been a favorite of mine for a while. But the opinions on these are so conflicting. And while I've read though a lot of posts asking if they're suitable community fish, usually the tank is a fair bit smaller and thus I thought that would be reflected in the answers I've read. In my tank, would their aggression be more mild due to space?

I also would love blue and gold rams, though I know they prefer lower pH and higher temps, so that depends on what other fish I get. These also a ground dwelling, and may conflict with the Kribs, but I thought there should be enough space.

I would also like, perhaps, some Discus, a small group as a centre peice.

Other then that, I'm lost in terms of what tetras, barbs, killifish, loaches, rainbow fish and whatever else to get?

What are some better schoolers and what would be the best numbers in my size tank?

Sorry for such a long question, and thanks for any help! Cheers:smile:
Would keep fishes that enjoyed the GH,KH,pH of water I could most easily re-produce(ie) tapwater.
Domestic dDscus would be fine in wider range of water but may only breed in soft water with low TDS (total dissolved solid's).
 
#9 ·
So, after quite a few years and a large move and various power outages, I've giving up on fixing my tank back to how it was as a reef not long ago. The tank has therefore been turned into a planted freshwater tank.

It's 6ft x 2 ft x 2ft, with a sump, 2 inches of river sand underneath and inch of river pebbles and 8 x 80 t5 lights. I'm using fertilizer tabs instead of a already fertilized substrate due to cost.

At the moment, I just added a few plants, and a couple driftwood peices, as well as 10 Harlequin Barbs.

I really need some stocking advice, though, as it differs so much from the marine stocking I'm used to.

I really really really want some Kribensis cichilids, as they have been a favorite of mine for a while. But the opinions on these are so conflicting. And while I've read though a lot of posts asking if they're suitable community fish, usually the tank is a fair bit smaller and thus I thought that would be reflected in the answers I've read. In my tank, would their aggression be more mild due to space?

I also would love blue and gold rams, though I know they prefer lower pH and higher temps, so that depends on what other fish I get. These also a ground dwelling, and may conflict with the Kribs, but I thought there should be enough space.

I would also like, perhaps, some Discus, a small group as a centre peice.

Other then that, I'm lost in terms of what tetras, barbs, killifish, loaches, rainbow fish and whatever else to get?

What are some better schoolers and what would be the best numbers in my size tank?

Sorry for such a long question, and thanks for any help! Cheers:smile:
Would keep fishes that enjoyed the GH,KH,pH of water I could most easily re-produce(ie) tapwater.
Domestic Discus would be fine in wider range of water, but may only breed in soft water with low TDS (total dissolved solid's).
 
#10 ·
Here is a stocking calculator for you. Many people here stock much heavier than this but it is a decent starting point.
http://www.aqadvisor.com/AqAdvisor.php?AqVolUnit=gUS&AqTempUnit=F&AqLengthUnit=inch

I prefer my fish to occupy different niches. One bottom feeder - Corydoras sp. One large schooler. One small algae eater. One small schooler and so on.

Choose one for each area of the tank and buy lots of them. A dozen Corydoras but choose one species rather than an assortment. 50 torpedo shaped tetras of one species and 30 deep bodied tetras of another. If you decide you want a large fish species then plan so you can accommodate a good number of them. I find the so called clean up crew to be more interesting to watch than the display fish and do not begrudge smaller display fish numbers because platies, otos and plecos are in the tank.

I haven't had kribs before but dwarf flag cichlids, Laetacara curviceps, were super good parents and not aggressive at all when brooding. They redirected attention away from the babies if a fish looked their way. Pretty neat I thought.

My 180 gallon tank with 20 additional gallons in the sump is understocked with ~12 corydoras, ~12 otocinclus, ~20 platies, ~15 Congo Tetras, ~40 Black Neon Tetras and 2 Bristlenose Plecos. I may end up buying more corydoras, otos and Congo Tetras and would love to find Peacock Gudgeons sometime.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Here is a stocking calculator for you. Many people here stock much heavier than this but it is a decent starting point.
http://www.aqadvisor.com/AqAdvisor.php?AqVolUnit=gUS&AqTempUnit=F&AqLengthUnit=inch

I prefer my fish to occupy different niches. One bottom feeder - Corydoras sp. One large schooler. One small algae eater. One small schooler and so on.

Choose one for each area of the tank and buy lots of them. A dozen Corydoras but choose one species rather than an assortment. 50 torpedo shaped tetras of one species and 30 deep bodied tetras of another. If you decide you want a large fish species then plan so you can accommodate a good number of them. I find the so called clean up crew to be more interesting to watch than the display fish and do not begrudge smaller display fish numbers because platies, otos and plecos are in the tank.

I haven't had kribs before but dwarf flag cichlids, Laetacara curviceps, were super good parents and not aggressive at all when brooding. They redirected attention away from the babies if a fish looked their way. Pretty neat I thought.

My 180 gallon tank with 20 additional gallons in the sump is understocked with ~12 corydoras, ~12 otocinclus, ~20 platies, ~15 Congo Tetras, ~40 Black Neon Tetras and 2 Bristlenose Plecos. I may end up buying more corydoras, otos and Congo Tetras and would love to find Peacock Gudgeons sometime.

Thanks! Going and putting in what I am considering it;s around 75%. That's not bad considering I plan on this being done over the long, long, long run. Though it does say the Kribs are too aggressive with my other selected fish on that site.

Thanks for that - I've talked to a few people at LFS and such, and it seems more to come down to the individual fish? I just hoped the extra space for make mild the aggression, even through breeding. I'm hopeful. How would the Kribs go with the Rams, do you think? Okay as lond as I break up their line of site and such?

Congo tetras are sweet, but prefer lower temps, sadly. Same with the black neons, I think.. I liked those also. Do your Corydoras school in those numbers?


And @ Roadmaster, that can vary, as my house uses bore, well, rain and town water in various places... So the type of water I can use also can change... But I will have to test each and see if what I want... soft, slightly acidic water, is possible. Thanks!:) I think 5 - 10 dH and still pH 6.8 or so.
 
#14 ·
Sorry to be so repetative but what are people's actually thoughts on this list.. Keeping in mind it will be slow to build to this and the Kribs will be monitored, and have a place to be moved to if they do get too aggressive.

[SIZE=-1]14 Harlequin Rosb[SIZE=-1]oras
[SIZE=-1]20 or mo[SIZE=-1]re[/SIZE] Lemon Tetras (I've heard these are good schoolers and although they're fairly plain, a lar[SIZE=-1]ge school [SIZE=-1]of non-f[SIZE=-1]in nippers would be nice.[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]
[/SIZE]4 Golden Rams
[SIZE=-1]4 [SIZE=-1]German Blue Rams (or plain Blue rams, not fuse[SIZE=-1]d[SIZE=-1])
[SIZE=-1]2 Kribensis Cichilids
[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]10 Emerald Catfish
[SIZE=-1]8 Sterbai [SIZE=-1]Corydoras (would [SIZE=-1]get a large[SIZE=-1]r group but they[SIZE=-1]'re expensive around here)
[SIZE=-1]6 Otos[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]5 [SIZE=-1]K[SIZE=-1]huli Loaches
[SIZE=-1]5/6 [SIZE=-1]Discus

[SIZE=-1]Would that be too many bottom d[SIZE=-1]wellers though? I know [SIZE=-1]people say, choose a vari[SIZE=-1]ety that occup[SIZE=-1]y different regions[SIZE=-1]. I also hoped the shape of the tetras [SIZE=-1]would contrast, and their [SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]occupation[/SIZE] of lower/middle [SIZE=-1]to higher/middle [SIZE=-1]levels of the tank. Then with the eventual Discus, would that be enough fish in the higher section of the t[SIZE=-1]a[SIZE=-1]nk?

[SIZE=-1]How o[SIZE=-1]ften [SIZE=-1]do Ram venture upwards?

[SIZE=-1]Cheers and thanks for the help so far.[/SIZE]
[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]


Also, on the AqAdvisor this puts my stocking at 71% but I can't imagine adding much more than that



[/SIZE]
 
#15 ·
That sounds fine. I think. I'd be tempted to bump up the numbers of the rasporas. I have 12 penguin tetras as the main school in my 54 gallon tank and that fits well enough but I think 14 schooling fish in a 180 isn't that much and they're always happier and prettier in bigger groups.

I'd also probably stock really slowly, start off with the hardier fish and get the hang of plants and the tank before adding the more delicate rams and discus.

I used to have sterbai cories, they're pretty much my favourite cory. Started out with 6 but they spawned and I raised the fry so I had a few extra later on.

As for the lower/middle/upper sections of the tank, the fish will do just what they want. If you have plants that reach the surface the fish will feel safer to venture higher up more often, but even then individual fish will sometimes decide to not swim much in the level they're "supposed" to be in. Like I had a gourami that usually stayed in the lower to middle level of the tank for some reason.

Also do read up on discus and discus in planted tanks, lots. I think there were some nice threads in this forum on the topic. You need to make sure that everything you do in terms of other fish etc. is geared towards the discus for when they go in.
 
#16 ·
Awesome...Yeah I could up the number of the Harlequins, I didn't want to overstock but I think it'll be ok.

Yeah I still have a lot of reading to do on Discus..They and the Rams will be the final additions once I'm really comfortable will all the other fish and plants being healthy. I have a spare 3 foot tank I was hoping would be alright for a Discus QT also.

You have some experience with Rams, if I introduce four, will they pair and fight? Or kind of school, with a pair and two that tag along?

I really love the Sterbai cories, they're cute and interesting, though I've rarely seen them locally.. Probably have to order online.

That'd be great. I plan on it being fairly heavily planted. I'm reading the thread Beginners Guide to Discus currently haha. Thanks again! :)



Edit: I MAY already be reconsidering discus.. They might be more of a I'll aim for them and try to get everything perfect, but if it's not going perfectly I'll probably stay clear.
 
#18 ·
Id go with lemon tetras over diamond tetras, the splash of red over their eye is really pretty with all the green of the plants and from what Ive searched around lemon tetras are supposed to be pretty peaceful.

And yeah.. discus while gorgeous are a handful to keep, I think you're doing the right thing in gearing your tank towards them but waiting before actually getting them. A beautiful and healthy planted tank with dwarf cichilids, tetras and cories is plenty to look at already and can be a total gem without any fish beyond that.
 
#21 ·
Yeah and I think I;ve read Lemons are better schoolers and less nippy or other fish. And they stay smaller, which I like.

While talking to my LFS they tried to convince me that the Kribs and Rams would outright eat the Rosboras? Is that correct at all?

Certainly, I still hope to get discus, but I feel like placing them, in a newbie planted tank, is a rather tight line. Especially with their low tolerance of nitrate and such, which is usually higher in planted tanks. So I'll just see how it goes! :) Thanks again
 
#19 ·
I do not have much experience with most of the fish on your list, but my initial response is to consider larger groups of fewer species. I have a school of 44 rummynose tetras and they have changed my definition of what constitutes a "school". In a tank this size I would consider anything under 12-15 individuals an experiment which you later fix by buying more or taking them out. A real school in this tank would have 20-25 individuals IMO. Exception: the discus or other large center piece fish.

So in your case I would get more of or eliminate the loaches, cats, otos, rasboras. The kribs and rams are not schoolers and are special cases, but again I would consider just one or two of the three you list.

Why? This may be personal preference, but I find the overall scene more peaceful with fewer species. The view is less of a jumble and more of a coherent environment. Watch any underwater video short of a coral reef and you will see what I mean.

How's this list?
15-20 sterbai cats
25 lemon tetras
12-15 otos
15-20 harlequins
6 discus (same color)
one or two pair kribs/rams


Just my thoughts and probably worth what you paid for them....
 
#20 ·
Thanks, I'm definitely considering narrowing my choices down and going with fewer species but larger and more simple/cohesive groups... I suppose the choices are also overwhelming. I was planning on at least 20 Lemon tetras, and the biggest school.. But could always add more if, once in the tank, it doesn't look like enough.

I was thinking the Harlequins would be a smaller, but still large school... maybe 20 of these, then 30 Lemons? is that too much?

I didn't realize Otos actually schooled?

I do like the idea of choosing just one catfish... But at the same time i love the different look of the Emeralds. Dilema haha


But I see what you're getting at and will have to think about what I really want long term.

Thank you very much, your ideas are really appreciated and helpful :)
 
#22 ·
With my experience with discus i quickly realized that i started to care so much for them that i sacrificed a lot of my existing tank. I eventually cleared out all my denisonii barbs angels and clown loaches just so they could get a decent amount of food.

Obviously the planted tank is something everyone wants to achieve but after raising discus to be adults i can say that if i were to do it again theres no doubt that i would skip all the hassle and just go barebottom until they are adults. I had a fairly good amount of plants and soon saw the hassle everyone on simplydiscus was talking about that ignored. It'll save you so much work its not even funny! Not trying to discourage you from giving them an awesome planted home but it is without doubt a whole lot easier. Of course this depends on the size of the discus you want to get :)
 
#23 ·
Yeah, I think at this point I'd rather the planted tank and community, as opposed to the discus. That is, if I HAD to pick. I am hoping I'll be able to maintain a small group when the tank's mature.

I like a variety of fish too much to do solely a species specific tank, I think.

But thanks for the input, it's nice to hear from someone how has first had experience with discus. When you did keep them, did you even have them in a planted tank? Did it get too difficult to keep the water as clean as it is needed to be.

Also, the natural pH of my rain water is about 7.2. I would like it lower, but it would be more stable here... Do you think that would be suitable?
 
#24 ·
Some rasporas are tiny and kribs and rams will eat them. Harlequin rasporas get close to 2" when fully grown so I think they would be safe. I've had neons without a problem with rams. It can depend on the individual fish I guess. Cichlids are fun like that.
 
#25 ·
Heh, well.. I can rehome them, if they do get too hard to handle. I added 4 more Harlequins Rosboras, but they developed white spot straight away. So, I've raised the temperature to 29/30C, but had already lost one and another one died later, despite not having any visible spots. 2 of the other look particularly bad, but the other 10 are healthy looking. They were all from the same pet shop, so I don't know if it was the newer 4 that all got ill or what.... I plan to do a large water change tomorrow and am adding garlic to their food. Would a 50% water change be alright?

I'm reluctant to medicate or even ass aquarium salt to the tank after reading so many conflicting opinions. Sigh. Hopefully the plants can cope with the higher temp momentarily.

Should of quarantined and will do so in the future. (Stupid, but I just thought Freshwater fish wouldn't really require it so much. Especially being the ONLY new fish in the tank)

Anyways I checked our your journals and I really adore your tank, the Penguin tetras are sweet as and the scape is sensational. I love love love that driftwood piece. Am looking for some like that myself. Are they available online at all? Local is fairly scarce.
 
#26 ·
lol, this is funny cause I still am in the same boat, just different fish. I dropped 32 balloon lamp eyes in my tank and thought I got shorted fish lol. I still am debating whether or not to get more and/or some rummynose. Going to have to wait and see what 9 grown roselines make the tank look like. I would pick the main fish you want to school and add to them until you "feel" like it is big enough.
 
#27 ·
Thanks for checking out my tank journals! I bought the driftwood online through a UK based seller (where I live). It's redmoor root, and the seller had pictures of the individual pieces so you could buy a specific one rather than just saying "I want a large one". It would be really expensive to ship to australia I'd imagine and probably completely unecessary. I'm sure there's some australia based sellers that do a similar thing.
 
#28 ·
No prolem, I really do love your tank, though! The Rams are gorgeous and I love the layering of plants - so natural but still organized and just lovely. And the Nano is just too cute, I love love love shrimp. And both your tanks are so cleeeaaan!

Hahaha yeah, I found an Aussie guy on Ebay, selling some kind of Golden Vine pieces, some don't look too bad. I could try asking what my LSF can order in, but it would probably mostly by the Malaysian log type stuff.

What's Golden vine like? the postage is reasonable and atm all I have is three tiny peices, which was all my LSF had.
 
#30 · (Edited)
That's fine, thanks for the input! I could go with Angels, though I've never been entirely that fond of them... I also think because I love love love the golden and blue rams, the higher temp they want goes well with the Discus.



However I'm having a problem at the moment. A few of the Harlequins appear unable to keep themselves upright... While the group chills that turn upside down in the water, and then they correct themselves and swim across the tank. Is this a symptom of whitespot or have I another issue to consider?

It's really disappointing, as I have no clue how to help them. One of them seemed to give up and was floating arround the tank, I netted him and confined him but he doens't look well. I was about to do a water change, should I still do this? Or will it add more stress?

Could the raised temp (30 degrees Celsius) be the cause of this behavior?

Edit: The worst one just died =/ Not a happy welcome back to freshwater fish keeping.
 
#31 ·
LOVE my angels... such an interactive fish.. I say angels over discus if you have had problems running a reef tank. Angels are much hardier than discus... Also... look into bolivian rams.. They color nicely and tend to stay at the bottom part of the tank...
 
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