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Green slim algae

7K views 40 replies 16 participants last post by  jart 
#1 ·
I have read the best way to treat this type algae is with Maracyn or Erythromycin. But I have a few concerns:

1) Will they harm My Biological filter?

2) Will they harm my shrimp or ADF?

I would perfer not to use this method however it may be the only way.

1) Does anyone know a better way of getting rid of slime algae?
 
#2 ·
A friend of mine had a large outbreak of this stuff. He used Maracyn at half the recommended strength. He didn't have shrimp at the time so I can't help you there.

I had a small out break a month or two ago. At first I tried manually removing it on my maintenance day and changed the water with a python to suck up the bits and pieces that I missed. That didn't work so well. I eventually started dosing nitrates, something I never used to do in the past and the slime receded.

I concluded that my potassium/nitrate ratio was out of whack. I Bought a nitrate test kit before dosing at my nitrates were around 5 ppm. I can't find a potassium test kit locally so I guess I can’t really say for sure.

Sorry about the rambling nature of the post. Hope it helps
 
#4 ·
How is the answer going to help him?
 
#5 ·
Is it really skinny? (sorry, couldn't resist!)
:hihi: It took me a while before I got it.

Trenac, I use Maracyn half dose before. I think it did effect the bio filtration abit after the treatment because I could see that the water wasn't that clear a week after I clear the medication. But after that, it came back to normal. Nothing to worry since it's a planted tank anyway. Not sure about the shrimp though.
 
#6 ·
I was in a hurry when i wrote that post so I'll try to clean it up and correct a mistake.

1) Maracyn: The half dose cleared up the slime, ammonia levels did not increase so impact on biofiltration was not measurable.

2) Nitrates: Blue-green algae can be a problem in tanks with very low nitrates. That’s why adding nitrates helped me. According to the algae articles at this and other sites, high phosphates not potassium (my bad:icon_roll ) may also be a factor.

In short make sure your nitrates are at or around 10 ppm, and If you use medications, half the recommended dosage on the bottle worked with no ill effects on the biosystem.
 
#7 ·
Clone...I keep my N03 at a 10ppm maybe I will try raising it a bit too 12ppm. My P04 is keep between 1-2ppm.

Thanks for everyones help.

I just order some Maracyn on line so as soon as I get it I will start the treatment.
 
#8 ·
I wouldnt dose maracyn at half levels. I would dose at regular max strength for the five day period. If you dose less you run the risk of developing a super strain that is resistant to erithromycin or other antibiotics..this isnt good for you and isnt good for anybody else. I found no effect on my bioload...I did however notice a really large growth spurt after treatment of my plants..this was great. The marcyn fixed the problem and it hasnt returned...btw blue green algae isnt algae but bacteria...it can cause sickness so if you handle it...wash hands afterwards...it smells to.:confused: :confused:
 
#9 ·
Maracyn is sold as a treatment for "fin and tail rot, popeye, and body fungus", according to the label. The recommended dosage is for those maladies, not BGA.

Most people recommend using a half dosage to kill BGA. That works for me. It disappears.

Of course, antibiotics prescribed for human consumption should be taken as prescribed, because resistant bacteria can develop if they are not.

Bill
 
#13 ·
Well Maracyn is widely used for treatment of Cyanobacteria which alot of people mistakenly refer to as algae. I know alot of people who advocate half doseages which for some have worked. However half doseages in some cases have not worked or when the cyano bacteria has come back it has been resistant to EM treatment due to its not being fully killed of by a half doseage...Why would you take this chance? A full doseage isnt harder on the fish or the bioload...its just alittle more money is all.


Of course, antibiotics prescribed for human consumption should be taken as prescribed, because resistant bacteria can develop if they are not.

Bill

Bill interesting quote...but BGA is no different from the some of the drug resistant strains that plague people. Its a bacteria like any other....partial treatment with antibiotics can lead to antibiotic resistant strains...I dont think anybody wants a tank full of drug resistant toxic stinking cyanobacteria...

Maracyn is just veterinarean grade Erythromycin, You could use the same stuff at the same level from your pharmacy with the same results...
 
#14 ·
Hi,

Cyanobacteria are a link between algae and bacteria. They are neither an algae nor a bacteria, according to current thinking.

BGA. algaes, and many pathogens are permanent residents of many aquariums. They don't become apparent until conditions are such to provide the stimuli to cause them to start to reproduce.

I haven't seen any references to drug resistant strains of BGA.

The dosage on the label of Maracyn is for several bacteriological infections of fish. The preponderance of opinon seems to be that one half of that is sufficient to curb a BGA outbreak without harming the biofilter or causing other problems.

Of course, BGA and other nusiances can recur. No cure is permanent.

Bill
 
#15 ·
See the Krib article for info on this...
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/cyanobacteria.html


Lowered doses, and shortened dosing periods, significantly raise the
chances of producing resistant strains. If you use the medicine at
recommended strength for the entire recommended duration, you are
less likely to build resistance.

About nitrifying bacteria being affected: Erythromycin is primarily
effective against gram positive bacteria, and I belive most nitrifying
bacteria are gram negative. That being said, I have had instances
where the tank had to re-cycle after it was treated with Erythromycin.
Go figure.

Shaji
--
Shaji Bhaskar bhaskar-at-bnr.ca
BNR, 35 Davis Dr, RTP, NC 27709 (919) 991 7125

Theres lots more articles on the web both on this site and several other ones regarding drug resistant strains of cyanobacteria. I guess all I am trying to say is that if you do manage to create a drug resistant strain of cyanobacteria by half dosing....and it does take hold really strong then you might as well junk the tank and bleach it out...Awhile ago I had a massive amount of cyanobac. in my tank, which I think was caused by low nitrates in the water column. The only thing I noticed was a sudden nitrite/ammonia spike after initial large dosing, as more than likely the large die off caused a sudden spike in the bioload. I run 2 large canisters and I noticed even as the die off progressed with the bacteria turning brown on day 2 the water params rapidly returned to normal. I chose not to do a water change as I didnt want to dilute the drug level.

The stuff is pretty toxic, looks bad, is hard on plants, poisonous to people and fish and smells like crap...The tank is in my office..so It had to go. Since the dosing I have experienced great plant growth and stable steady water paramaters...I saw no indication of a complete nitrifying bacteria drop off at large doses of Erithro over 5 day period.

For me this way worked.
 
#16 ·
I reviewed the articles that you cited at The Krib. There were four or five references to "resistant strains" of BGA. Four merely repeated the assertion that the dosage specified on the package should be used to avoid producing them; one, by Roger Miller, a recognized authority, stated, in part: "I haven't heard of any erythromycin-resistant strains of cyanobacteria. To that extent the warnings about developing resistant strains are theoretical, so can you can accept or reject the idea as you see fit."

Interested readers can go to The Krib to satisfy themselves that the references that you cited support or do not support your contention.

As far as the "proper" dosage is concerned, you must remember that Maracyn is sold as a medication for certain fish diseases. There is no reason to believe
that the dose listed on the package is also ideal for killing BGA. Following your logic, if an antibiotic used to treat infections on elephants was also found to kill BGA, one should use the same dosage in the aquarium as would be used on the elephants!

I will repeat my contention that half of the dose used to contain the fish infections works quite well against BGA and causes fewer unwanted side effects that does the larger dosage. This seems to be accepted by most experienced plant growers. This can be verified by perusing the archives of the APD at actwin.com.

Bill
 
#17 ·
aquabillpers said:
Hi,

Cyanobacteria are a link between algae and bacteria. They are neither an algae nor a bacteria, according to current thinking.

Bill
Actually, this is incorrect. Cyanobacteria has been scientifically classified as a bacteria for years. The only similarity is that this bacteria contains chloroplast like other eukaryotic algae's. Every other aspect of Cyanobacteria shows that it is a simple unicellular bacteria (usually).
 
#18 ·
Yes, you are right, of course. Cyanobacteria is one of the three phyla in the kingdom Monera, bacteria. Some see it as a "bridge" between plants and bacteria, mainly because it photosynthesizes, the only member of that kingdom that does that (I think). It used to be in the plant kingdom, as algae, as years ago, was bacteria.

Sorry for the mistake.

Bill
 
#19 ·
As far as the "proper" dosage is concerned, you must remember that Maracyn is sold as a medication for certain fish diseases. There is no reason to believe
that the dose listed on the package is also ideal for killing BGA. Following your logic, if an antibiotic used to treat infections on elephants was also found to kill BGA, one should use the same dosage in the aquarium as would be used on the elephants!


well I have to disagree, theres upteen evidence that bacteria when exposed to lower doses of antibiotics eventually builds immunity to them. Erithromycin is a general wide based antibiotic that is used by both Vets and GPs to treat multiple types of infections. I dont see what you mean by your elephant analogy. Are you aware that most common forms of penicillin arent widely proscribed anymore due to the fact that they have little to no effect on most bacterias. Unfortunately due to the fact that useage of antibiotics as a cure is a relatively recent phenomenum all things considered...

some more info on the subject

http://www.microbeworld.org/htm/aboutmicro/microbes/types/bacteria.htm

http://www.twnside.org.sg/title/heal-cn.htm

I am not trying to be an alarmist, but if you use antibiotics you should consider alot of issues during treatment. The prescribed doesage for Erithromycin is based on treatment of standard bacterial cells and their wall thickness, which share similar attributes to their cousins cyanobacteria. With this in mind doesnt it make more sense to use the regular amount during treatment? The other issue is that alot of antibiotics other than a few commonly available grades require a prescription from a Vet in most areas...which is a pain if you end up having to use something stronger to treat due to drug resistance.

I think most oppose full doseage because of perceived kill off of helpful nitrifying bacteria in the tank. There seems to be little evidence to support this. I really do believe that the spike most people see is the waste generated by the elimination of large amounts of cyanobacteria and its subsequent decomposition.

However if you disagree, can you show any links where half doseage treatments of bacteria is beneficial vs. full doseage treatments? Other then speculation?
 
#20 ·
OK, you are missing my point which is, in essence, that experience has shown that that one half tablet of Maracyn per 10 gallons kills BGA a minimum of side effects. Your checking of the APD site should have shown you that.

Also, as far as I know, there is no credible evidence of any resistant strains of BGA developing from that dosage.

Your general comment about antibiotics is valid. Smart people always take all of everything that their doctor prescribes. But as far as I know, nobody has come up with the optimum dosage for BGA, and years of experience has shown that half of the popeye dosage works just fine. (Again, the recommended dose on the Maracyn package is to cure that in fish, not to kill BGA.)

I didn't check your links because The Krib links that you cited earlier were irrelevant, just padding. That is the kind of stuff that gets inexperienced PhD candidates and young lawyers into trouble.

I am almost as tired of this thread as are the people who are following it. I'm done with it.

Keep your dosages up. <g>

Bill
 
#21 ·
If your that tired...why bother with the lengthly reply...I think your the one whos misinformed. But thats your choice...and your entitled to your opinion...no matter how erroneous it may be..

The krib article is just a good overview for others...

you keep citing the fact that Maracyn is for other ailments...

Do you not realize that the majority of those parasites, bacterial infections ect..share commonalities in cellular structure with BGA?

You cant be bothered to read any links...so Im done posting.
 
#22 ·
#23 ·
On Thursday I started dosing Maracyn at half dose but to play it safe I am going to increase it to the full dosage tonight. In the enclosed info in the Maracyn box it says "When used as directed they (Mardel products) do not interfer with the biological filter". This was what I was really worried about. So thanks guys for all the info (debate) on resistent strains of BGA.
 
#24 ·
Does full dosage of EM kill good bacteria?

Let me post some experimental results here. After reading all the different opinions, I thought this is something that I can possibly experiment and figure out. Well for the experiment, I used my 10 gal tank and a LFS 40 gal tank. My 10 gal didn't have much of green slime, some of it here and there in corners where the flow of water was very low (example, near the bottom of dwarf sags). Well it kind of looked ugly, so thought to get rid of it by EM. And another tank with my LFS which was a 40 gal and had a bad infestation of green slime. I dosed both the tanks with regular dosage of EM tabs (1 tab for every 10 gal), and observed it for the next 4 days. In both the cases the algae was gone. On the first day you observe it getting loose and getting into water and then within the next two days, don't know where it has gone, but its completely disappeared in both the tanks. In the 10 gal, I didn't observe any nitrate or nitrite spikes, the tank was normal as ever, fish seemed to be perfectly happy. But in the 40 gal there was a nitrate increase from 10ppm to around 15ppm, but no sign of any loss of good bacteria. It surely made sense, the spike was caused by the decomposing dead slime algae.
 
#25 ·
I finish with dosing on Monday and everthing looks great. All fish & shrimp survived without any stress. For two days I dosed half dose then went to full dose for the remaining three days. When I did my water change I just swaped the syphone over the plants and the dead stuff just came right off.


Thanks for everyones help :fish:
 
#26 ·
If you have any carbon handy you might want to run alittle in your filter to absorb any left over Maracyn that your water changes missed. Run it for like 1 week maximum or less if its a high turnover filter, then remove and discard.
 
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