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Metering(needle) valves selection for our CO2 pressurized system

124K views 336 replies 65 participants last post by  rajdude 
#1 · (Edited)
Post this just want to give some more options on choosing the right metering valves for our DIY CO2 rig build.
please post a picture of the metering valve if you are the lucky guy have one of the valves from the bottom of the list.

also in this thread.
*Solenoid valves selection
*Adjust bubble rate.



Metering/needle vales, Cv (flow coefficient) under 0.1 only


Swagelok 20 series needle valve, soft seat stem. Part number SS(B)-20R*
Orifice: 0.08"
Cv: 0.09 (at 2.5 turn full open)

Swagelok O series needle valve, soft seat stem. Part number SS(B)-OR*
Orifice: 0.08"
Cv: 0.09 (at 8 turn full open)

Pneumadyne (Pneumatic Control System), 700 series needle valve, Part number: C070301/C070501/C070601, made in UK
Thanks to kevmo911, who shine the light on this 700 series needle valve and present the .pdf data
Orifice: N/A
Cv: 0.09 (at 12 turn full open)

SMC AS2000 series needle valve, Part number: AS2???-*
Orifice: N/A
Cv: N/A ( At 4 turn SCFM is 0.88 SCFM, after 4 turn flow rate spike)

Clippard MNV-3/4 series needle valve, part number MNV-3* , MNV-4*
Orifice: 0.07"(MNV-3), 0.067"(MNV-4)
Cv: N/A (at 4 turn SCFM is 1, Cv is under 0.03 before 4 turns, after 4 turns, Cv spike)
owned

Ideal valve 52(brass)/54(stainless steel)--2 series, Part number 52-2-*, 54-2-*
Orifice: 0.0625"
Cv: 0.082 (at 20 turn, 22-24 turn full open)
owned

Hoke 2300 series metering valve, 8 degree angle stem
Orifice: 0.062"
Cv: 0.075 (at 20 turn full open)
owned

Parker Hannifin NM series, Part number *-NM?-*-*-*-*
Orifice: N/A
Cv: 0.055 (at 14 turn full open)
owned

Fabco NV55/FC55 needle valve, Part number NV-55, NV-55-18, FC-55
Orifice: N/A
Cv: N/A (approximately at 0.04, The SCFM is 1.7 at 10 turn full open, fully open flow rate similar to swagelok 31 series, actual lower flow control precision is similar or better than swagelok M series metering valves)
owned

SMC AS1000 Series needle valve, Part number AS120?-*
Orifice: N/A
Cv: N/A (approximately at 2.83 SCFM at 10 turn, but the flow curve is concaved, at 4.5 turn is 0.71 SCFM compare to NV-55 which is 0.95+ SCFM at 4.5 turn.
owned

Parker Hannifin HR series, Stem type 5, Part number: *-H5?-*-*-*
Orifice:N/A
Cv: 0.049 (at 15 turn full open)
owned

Parker Hannifin NS series, Part number *-NS?-*-*-*
Orifice: N/A
Cv: 0.042 (at 14 turn full open)
owned

Swagelok 31 series metering valve, Part number SS(B)-31R*
Orifice: 0.062"
Cv: 0.04 (at 10 turn full open)
(Tested, Orifice is too big, at low turn doesn't work well, avoid it)
owned

Parker Hannifin HR series, Stem type 4, Part number: *-H4?-*-*-*
Orifice:N/A
Cv: 0.032 (at 15 turn full open)

Swagelok Belows-sealed metering valve, Part number SS-4BMG, SS-4BMW(weld port)
Orifice: N/A
Cv: 0.019 (at 6 turn full open)
(Tested, Orifice is too big, at low turn doesn't work well)
owned

Swagelok M series metering valve, Part number SS(B)-?MG*, SS(B)-?MA*
Orifice: 0.056"
Cv: 0.03 (at 9 turn full open)
double pattern, dual handle
Cv: 0.026 ( at 9 turn full open)
(a lot of the swagelok M series that we can obtain are used with damaged/partially damaged stems, or older models Nupro M series, the precision lower than the new, so choose wisely)
owned

Ham-Let HF1300 series metering valve, 3 degree stem angle, Part number HF13??-*-*
Orifice: 0.055"
Cv: 0.03 (at 11 turn full open)

Fujikin UN series metering valve, L mark on top of the vernier handle, made in Japan
Orifice: 1.8MM
Cv: 0.03 (at 14 turn full open)
owned

Hoke Millimite 1300 series metering vale, 3 degree angle stem.
Orifice: 0.047"
Cv: 0.024 ( at 18 turn full open)
owned

Parker Hannifin HR series, Stem type 3, Part number: *-H3?-*-*-*
Orifice:N/A
Cv: 0.021 (at 15 turn full open)
owned

Fujikin High Pressure series metering valve, Part number: N/A, made in Japan
Orifice: 1.6MM
Cv: 0.017 (at 12 turn full open)

Fujikin UN/DUN series metering valve, made in Japan
Orifice: 1.5MM
Cv: 0.015 (at 14 turn full open)

Ideal valve 52(brass)/54(stainless steel)--1 series, Part number 52-1-*, 54-1-*
Orifice: 0.0313"
Cv: 0.019 (at 20 turn, 22-24 turn full open, approximate Cv 0.008 -0.009 at 10 turn)
owned

Parker Hannifin HR series, Stem type 2, Part number: *-H2?-*-*-*
Orifice:N/A
Cv: 0.014 (at 15 turn full open)
owned

Swagelok 21/22 series metering valve, Part number: *-21???-*, *-22???-*,
These are the mystery discontinued swagelok precision low flow control valve, and thanks to kevmo911, who shine the light on the 21/22 series and present the .pdf data.
Orifice: 0.02"
Cv: 0.007 (at 8 turn full open)
owned(TESTED! Due to the small orifice and long needle stem of this valve, the actual CV/turn and flow rate at low turn is a real small number, 0.1 bubble adjustment is possible on JBJ bubble counter)
Kevmo911 is the hero to bring this metering valve back to life...

Hoke Millimite 1300 series metering vale, 1 degree angle stem.
Orifice: 0.047"
Cv: 0.011 ( at 18 turn full open)
owned

Hoke 2300 series metering valve, 1 degree angle stem
Orifice: 0.062"
Cv: 0.01 (at 20 turn full open )
(Tested, Orifice is too big, at low turn doesn't work well)
owned

Parker Hannifin HR series, Stem type 1, Part number: *-H1?-*-*-*
Orifice:N/A
Cv: 0.007 (at 15 turn full open)

Fujikin PUN series metering valve, made in Japan
Orifice: N/AMM
Cv: 0.004 (at 10 turn full open)

Swagelok S series metering valve, Part number SS(B)-SS* , SS(B)-SM*
Orifice: 0.032"
Cv: 0.004 (at 10 turn full open)
double pattern, dual handles
Cv: 0.001 ( at 10 turn full open)
owned

Ham-Let HXF1300 series metering valve, 1 degree stem angle, Part number HXF13??-*-*
Orifice: 0.03"
Cv: 0.004 (at 11 turn full open)

Hoke Micromite 1600 series metering valve.
Orifice: 0.031"
Cv: 0.0008 (at 18 turn full open)
owned

Parker Hannifin HR series, Stem type 0, Part number: *-H0?-*-*-*
Orifice:N/A
Cv: 0.0004 (at 15 turn full open)
All Parker HR Series valves, the valve cartridge and the valve body are inter-changeable.
owned

Brooks instrument Extremely low flow NRS needle control valve, Model 8503, 8504, 8513, 8514.
This metering valve is the same design(non rising stem) as Parker Hannifin HR series, and same as Parker HR series, low CV for extremely low flow control.
8503, angle pattern, normal handle
8504, straight(inline) pattern, normal handle
8513, angle pattern, digital handle
8514, straight(inline) pattern, digital handle
stem type Cv.
type 6, CV: 0.052
type 5, CV: 0.017
type 4, CV: 0.0057
type 3, CV: 0.0013
type 2, CV: 0.00066
type 1, CV: 0.00029
owned

Chell Ultra-Fine Mechanism Needle Valve, needle 1 model, Made in UK
Orifice: N/A
Cv: N/A
(The lowest flow rate valve I know, for our application. 20 turn full open. Max flow rate is 20 SCCM(standard cubic centimeter per minute), which is 0.02 liter per minute at full open, 145psi pressure differential. Listed price: $500+, manufacture handling/shipping: $115, Total cost to get it in the us $600+.)
owned.

Vacoa valve
0-1.8CC, the spaceship valve, flow rate too low, not for our fish tank.
owned


Please let me know if you see any other metering valves that not here and can be used in our DIY CO2 pressurized system.




what solenoid do you want to use?

Clippard solenoid(MME-2SDS-*), and Burkert 6011 solenoid are the most commonly seen in our application, they are 1/8" NPT ports and ready to fit pipe fittings.
but they are 6.5 watt and 4 watt power consumption and create a lot of heat for 8 hours on, also, the fluid media(CO2) flow is never fast enough to draw away the heat. The heat, creates core melting, metal(spring) fatigue, cracked O-ring problems, and shorten the lives of these valves.
Burkert is a tag better because it is 4 watt and create less heat than a Clippard(MME-2SDS-*).
Parker Skinner B series 1/8" NPT ports solenoid valves(6 watt, 7 watt) are not that common, but actually better, because they are full metal body, faster heat dispatch than the said Clippard and the Burkert.
Parker Skinner C series solenoid valves are even better, 1/8" NPT ports, full metal body and only 2 or 3 watt power consumption, but hard to find one.
The clippard mouse solenoid is the best I know so far, only 0.67 watt power consumption and designed for low flow applications(that is our setups), 1 billion official on/off cycle life, full metal body, doesn't even feel warm when operate. But this valve is not 1/8" NPT ports ready, need adapters or sometimes, need some metal working to make them connect to pipe fittings.

These solenoid valve are all high quality industrial valves, they all have on/off cycle lives that is not less than 100 million. Failed solenoid are commonly seem in our applications because the way we use it, for at least 7 hours on and the fluid is not be able to take away the heat. Constantly heated/overheated condition shorten the lives of solenoid valves and fail them.
So whichever creates less heat(less power consumption) wins.


How to adjust the bubble rate.
For no pressure in the post body system start up.
1. set the output pressure of the regulator at 30-50 psi.
2. close all needle valves, turn on the solenoid.
3. open the needle valve, slowly, monitor the bubble rate, every time you turn the needle valve, wait 20 seconds or longer, depends on how long the tubing from the needle valve to the diffuser, the longer the tubing, the longer time you need to wait. stop when the desire bubble rate reach.
4. (this step omitted if using a reactor-no backward pressure)wait until the diffuser starts cracking out bubbles, then wait 20 minutes.
5. Adjust the needle valve again, 20 seconds or longer waiting time each time you turn the needle valve, once the desire bubble rate reach, stop.
6. let the system run for half an hour.
7A. if there is no change of bubble rate after half an hour, you can lock the locking handle of the needle valve(for SMC AS1200 needle valve), and it is all done.
7B. if there is no signification change of the bubble rate, repeat step 5 and 6.
7C. if there is significant change of the bubble rate after half an hour, use soapy water leak check the system, from the outlet of the regulator to the diffuser(if no leak, what is the needle valve you use?:))
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The Metering(Needle) Valve Selection for CO2 Pressurized System
Complete Leak check, Double Stage Regulator Pressurized system
 
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1
#72 ·
the hoke 1325 3 degree stems is nowhere near ideal 1 series.
larger CV and orifice, less precision.

Tne hoke millimite 1 degreee stem angle CV is lower than ideal 1, but has a larger orifice, do need to compare them on side by side test.

Hoke micromite is hard to be found, but luckily, I have two new ones.
 
#76 ·
Ideal valve is good, it is the cheapest in similar valves.

HOKE, Swagelok/Nupro, Parker, and other metering valves in the same performance range as Ideal valve are much higher in price.

Precision metering valves that are much better Ideal valve, will be at least double in retail. anyway, there are still metering valves we can grab, just need some luck.
Use Ideal as last resort, if you don't know what you need or can't find anything better.

The Nupro/swagelok discontinued 22 and 21 series, give it a try, no regret.
 
#82 ·
If you look at the numbers, (I have not personally tried that Hoke yet) it's looks like the good 'ol Ideal valve will yield slightly more resolution for lack of a better term.

Ideal 52 series - 0.0008 to 0.019, takes 24 turns of the knob to go from minimum to maximum.
Hoke 1600 series - 0.0008 to 0.0085(I think... I'm no math wiz), takes 18 turns of the knob to go from minimum to maximum. (It's a pretty steep curve too) It will certainly work well though. (I think... the cv charts can be misleading sometimes.)
 
#83 · (Edited)
#84 ·
If you are referring to the curve chart here. I think its turned around. Meaning normally # of turns is on the x axis and the cv is normally on the x axis. It looks like 5 full turns to about .0001. The max cv is actually .00085.
http://www.pneumatech.com.pl/public/pliki/8/20110609152732metering_1600.pdf
http://catalog.hoke.com/viewitems/metering-valves/micromite-1600-series

Seems way better than the ideal.
Ya, I wasn't sure how to read that chart. If it maxes out at 0.00085, that's just nuts.
 
#85 ·
As 10 to the -3 power is .001, and the Hoke Cv chart has it max out at .85 Cv (times 10 to the -3 power) at 18 turns, the Cv would indeed be about 0 to .00085 (again, according to the info from Hoke). I bought one of these a while back just to play with, and have not done so yet. I'll try to do that this weekend and (try to) compare it to maybe a Swagelok S or Hoke 1300 (1d). Though differences on that scale start to be tough to catch, but I'll do my best.

Then again, I might have to order some more Gyrolok ferrule sets (Hoke just had to make their compression fittings "special") so it may take a couple weeks. Or somebody else can chime in.
 
#86 ·
Kev, if you read this (http://www.hoke.com/pdf/79307_interchange.pdf) you will gather that even though HOKE recommends using only their ferrules, they say you can use swagelok ferrules with the gyrolok fittings.

"HOKE, while offering superior product design, is nonetheless able to guarantee functional interchangeability of the HOKE Gyrolok® and Swagelok® fittings." I've used swagelok ferrules on HOKE fittings and they work just fine.
 
#87 ·
ian, what I understand is HOKE fittings and Swagelok fittings are interchangeable, not the ferrules.:)
The ferrules are different, not interchangeable by design, but you can actually use different ferrules and they hold pretty well, for low pressure non critical applications(on your own risk).
If you are going to get the angle pattern Micromite 1600 series metering valve, let me know, I will show you how to connect it to the system.
 
#90 ·
I gather from that link that the ferrules are interchangeable as well.

"The result is that HOKE Incorporated is able to guarantee the functional interchangeability of Gyrolok® Tube Fittings with similar fittings of certain other manufacturers, including Swagelok®, Parker A-lok® and Parker CPI™. Specifically, whenever Gyrolok® and fittings of certain other manufacturers are interchanged by using one manufacturer’s nut and ferrule system with the other’s body, HOKE will guarantee this interchanged fitting to effect a safe, secure leak tight seal provided there is no deficiency in parts not supplied by HOKE. Properly interchanged product is covered by HOKE Incorporated’s standard warranty."

But bettatail please share how you would connect one.
 
#89 ·
I have one shown on the left that I got from Bettatail:



I also own at least 5 Ideal 52- ones. I am personally hard pressed to tell the difference between the two.
My only nit with Hoke is that the handle is on top, while on Ideals it's on the end. I guess I just got used to the Ideal's configuration.
Both valves use 1/8" NPT connectors (Male on Hoke, Femla on Ideal), so, the brand of the fittings does not matter.
 
#91 ·
The 2 brass valves on the far left are Hoke 1300 (1 degree) valves, whose number of turns (18) and Cv (.012) are very similar to the Ideal 52-1 valves (24 turns and .019 Cv), so it's not surprising it's difficult to tell much of a difference in visual flow rates.

Also, both the Hokes and Ideals are available in straight and angle pattern body styles (the handle on top versus to the side).
 
#92 ·


The vernier handle is the best I've seen so far, with Turn Counter.
and the orifice of this valve is off scale, really small. Small orifice and low CV, the actual flow rate is suppose to be really small, but need to test it, which haven't done yet.
 
#93 ·
Parker HR series metering valve is currently available on ebay, the part number is 2F-H3L-*, it is 1/8" npt female connection(2F-), and high precision 3 degree, straight/Line version (H3L), grab it while you can.
 
#99 ·
They are same model, H3L

4M is 1/4 male NPT both end connection, and 2F is 1/8 female npt both end connection.

V and KZ, I believe it the difference of internal seal material.

Around same retail because they are H3L,(H)igh precision (3) degree stem angle, (L)ine/straight pattern.
 
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