Adding H2O2 damages HC
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > Specific Aspects of a Planted Tank > Plants


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-30-2014, 09:11 PM   #1
Solcielo lawrencia
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,504
Default

Adding H2O2 damages HC


I used H2O2 to try to kill BBA but it also had the unintended side effect of also causing HC around the BBA to wither. As well, once it withers down, it won't root again and will suffer for months.

So what does H2O2 do to plants? Does it damage roots and prevent the uptake of nutrients?
Solcielo lawrencia is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-01-2014, 12:08 AM   #2
AirstoND
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,456
Default

Peroxide is an oxidizer that strips electrons from molecules to release ozone or oxygen. Its electron oxidizing power affects enzymes plants use to make usable form of macronutrients.

Interesting tidbit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalase
AirstoND is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2014, 06:39 AM   #3
Solcielo lawrencia
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,504
Default

So H2O2 damaged these enzymes? So basically, the plant will need to be replaced since they aren't functioning normally.
Solcielo lawrencia is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2014, 10:00 AM   #4
Zapins
Wannabe Guru
 
Zapins's Avatar
 
PTrader: (19/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Harrogate, TN
Posts: 1,614
Default

H2O2 makes reactive radicals that damage enzymes and other plant tissues. It is naturally made in almost all living cells (all aerobic ones), and cells have a special defense against it - an enzyme called peroxidase that safely disposes of H2O2. Peroxidase is the reason why when you cut yourself and put peroxide on it the liquid fizzes, it is also the reason why H2O2 frequently fizzes when you spot treat certain species of algae.

Can you post some close up photos of the damage? If you can get a few good shots of it I can add them to the DeficiencyFinder.com and give you credit.
Zapins is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2014, 07:52 PM   #5
Solcielo lawrencia
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,504
Default

I thought it was catalase that breaks down H2O2.

Anyway, this is what HC looks like. Healthy HC on the right:


Leaves appear to have fallen off and the roots start to wither.
Solcielo lawrencia is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2014, 08:56 PM   #6
Zapins
Wannabe Guru
 
Zapins's Avatar
 
PTrader: (19/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Harrogate, TN
Posts: 1,614
Default

Thanks for the photos. Very interesting indeed. Though we know it was H2O2, notice how the new and old growth are equally affected - a key indicator that it isn't nutrient related.

Catalase is a specific type of peroxidase and is probably a more precise answer to why cells bubble when exposed to H2O2.

See:
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives...4454.Bc.r.html
Zapins is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2014, 09:36 PM   #7
Solcielo lawrencia
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,504
Default

I have to make a correction about the leaves falling off; they don't. They appear to die off from the tips back to the stem, almost like a potassium deficiency but it occurs on all the leaves. The roots die back, too, and the HC can float off the substrate.
Solcielo lawrencia is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2014, 07:05 AM   #8
ChemGuyEthan
Planted Member
 
ChemGuyEthan's Avatar
 
PTrader: (10/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Southern California
Posts: 264
Default

Good to know this can be a problem. Just to clarify a few things, firstly hydrogen peroxide does not produce ozone. Secondly, the death of cells could not be due to catalase activity, but the lack of it. Catalase preserves cells by safely decomposing peroxide. If there is just too much peroxide around or the cells were already compromised in some way, the free peroxide may have been left to further react to chew up parts of the cell, triggering cell death and overall damage to the plant.

As I understand it, UV light and dissolved metal ions (iron in particular) aid in breaking up hydrogen peroxide, releasing hydroxide radicals. These radicals immediately react with whatever they can causing a radical chain reaction that can wreak havoc for organic life.

The algae are generally more sensitive to this due to the smaller size and simpler cell structure. They cannot cope with cell loss like more complex life, plants, can. Perhaps HC is just more susceptible to peroxide due to it's size? The small leaves just get demolished and that part of the plant struggles to provide food to grow and repair the damage. This idea might be supported by the fact that the smallest portions of the plant, leaf and root tips, appear to die first.
Both of these reports found that even at a mere 0.2%, brown algae and some cyanobacteria (blue-green algae) could be irradicated. It was also shown that up to 0.6% exhibited almost no negative effect on larger organisms.

Science rant over.

May I ask what concentration of hydrogen peroxide you were using? 3%? If more than that, maybe try a smaller percentage or try diluting it to treat HC.
ChemGuyEthan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2014, 07:07 AM   #9
ChemGuyEthan
Planted Member
 
ChemGuyEthan's Avatar
 
PTrader: (10/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Southern California
Posts: 264
Default

Hope you understand I couldn't resist commenting on a chemistry-related post, haha. I do hope you're plants recover quickly from the treatment.
ChemGuyEthan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2014, 09:05 AM   #10
Zapins
Wannabe Guru
 
Zapins's Avatar
 
PTrader: (19/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Harrogate, TN
Posts: 1,614
Default

Interestingly heavy metal toxicity harms plants by destroying parts of the photosynthetic mechanism which creates more reactive and damaging radicals.
Zapins is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2014, 06:32 PM   #11
Solcielo lawrencia
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,504
Default

It was a 3% solution of H2O2, 10 mls concentrated on the rocks. The HC surrounding the rocks were affected.

I've damaged an entire carpet of HC before with H2O2. It won't completely die but it won't grow new leaves. It appears to remain permanently stunted and roots won't take hold. It will eventually sent out new side shoots which will grow normally.
Solcielo lawrencia is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012