GBR disease ID please
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Old 02-05-2014, 11:49 PM   #1
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GBR disease ID please


I had 2 pairs of mated GBR. They initially spent ~3 months in a 10g QT as juveniles and then ~1 year in a 30g tank.

No problems until 3 weeks ago when I noticed one female hanging right under the surface. Her eyes were bulging (almost pop-eye size) and her head was dark brown. She did not last 2 days... The other 3 rams looked normal. I treated the whole tank with API's General Cure (anti parasite) and then moved the remaining female to a QT tank. About 2 weeks ago I found one of the males hanging at the surface, at a slight vertical diagonal angle, with his nose at water line. His eyes looked normal, but he had 4-5 "cysts" on his body, ~ 1/4 of rice grain in size, reddish in color. I moved him to QT, he was hanging at the surface, not eating, and being picked on by the female GBR there and I had to put him down...

Yesterday, I managed to catch the remaining male in the 30G (he was hiding for several days and not coming out to eat) and moved him to another tank. He shows poor color, seems to breath on the heavier side, and has a single similar "pimple" (but white) in front of his eye (see picture, the best I could get). He is currently in the back corner at the water surface and he did not eat this morning.

The remaining GBR female in QT is looking really good, all remaining fish in the 30g look normal. Everything is at 0, with N at ~40 ppm, temp ~74 (heater failure ...) in the original tank.

Any ideas or recommendations?
Thanks a ton.

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Last edited by OVT; 02-06-2014 at 01:05 AM.. Reason: more details
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Old 02-06-2014, 12:13 AM   #2
Aqualady
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I was taught that GBR's are sensitive to Nitrates and I should stay 20 or below.....dorry for your losses and I really hope someone chimes in to help you because I do not knw what the cysts looking things are....good luck
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Old 02-06-2014, 12:38 AM   #3
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Could be fungal tufts. Rams get stressed very easily at least in my experience. In turn this leaves them open to infection from things like fungus. Several pairs of my rams over the years have had the same thing and it cleared up just fine. They are very sensitive to water quality so I would suggest doing a couple water changes over the course of a few days to keep water quality high. If it is indeed fungus, than water changes and feeding him some good foods to boost his immune system should clear it up quickly. As a last resort, kordon rid fungus worked for me on several occasions, even though I really believe it was the water changes that helped more than the medication
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Old 02-06-2014, 12:56 AM   #4
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Did you move them in with fish that were ever kept with dwarf gourami? Otherwise, have you added in any new fish?
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:03 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffww View Post
Did you move them in with fish that were ever kept with dwarf gourami? Otherwise, have you added in any new fish?
The 4 GBRs were in the same tank with Sparkling Gouramies from the get go (~1 year).
The only fish added since the tank was set up were 2 Golden Wonder Killies about 1.5 months ago after 3 weeks in QT and 6 ottos about 6 months ago.

All other "new' fish were born in the tank: 2 Sparkling Gouramies and a ton of guppies (that's the reason for adding Golden Wonders).
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:55 AM   #6
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Were the wonder killis from petsmart or a system with shared water that housed dwarf gourami? Trichogaster lalia. I say this because nearly all farm produced dwarf gourami carry iridovirus. A 100% lethal virus that takes around a month or two to manifest. It begins by darkening of color, lesions and ends with death.


see: http://www.aces.edu/dept/fisheries/e...20gouramis.pdf

The cysts may also be from some type of parasite or bacterial infection.

Fungal infections tend to be secondary infections from an underlying parasitic or bacterial problem. And beneath these problems tends to be waterquality issues.
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Old 02-06-2014, 04:28 AM   #7
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Thanks a lot, friend. Not very encouraging. No known cure ...

The killies came from LFS with shared water system, and yes, they also have dwarf gouramies. Trying to decide if I should put the guy down, move him to QT with his girlfriend, or what... Also strange that , as per your reference, transmission to cichlids is common.

The rams were in this tank http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh....php?p=3346202

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Old 02-06-2014, 05:06 AM   #8
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In the chance that it's not iridovirus (not 100% likely) I would just QT the unhealthy rams and treat with a broad spectrum antibiotic first and foremost like a mix of kanamycin and metronidazole. You may also simultaneously dose with furan 2. However I have never used furan 2 before. I have only used metro + kana in my personal experience.
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Old 02-06-2014, 05:25 AM   #9
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Ok, moved him to QT with his 'wife' and will put them on antibiotics tomorrow.

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Old 02-06-2014, 05:29 AM   #10
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My gbr got similar pimples/cysts and ended up dying because no one could Id it. I'm glad people could help you and I wish you the best of luck!

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Old 02-06-2014, 05:02 PM   #11
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Oleg- I know exactly what you are talking about. We don't see it very often, but often enough to understand your concerns. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but unfortunately, virtually all of the time, the condition turns out to be fatal. I really don't know what it is, but it does not seem to be contagious, especially the pop-eye part. The pimples or white spots you mentioned just seem to get a little larger, then the fish turns almost black, and usually dies within 48 hours after that. Some breeders say that it is due in part to water quality. While that may be part of the problem, I don't believe that it is always the root cause. We do 80% water changes once or twice a week in our grow-out tanks, plus we have fully functioning filters in each of our tanks, and every once in a while one of these symptoms pops up (no pun intended). In our case, more often than not, it can usually be traced back to a sudden drop in temperature. We also raise discus, and many times we will keep discus and rams together, as they both like the water around 84-86 degrees. Living in the Chicago area (especially this year) we are subject to pretty strong thunder/snow/ice storms that will knock out our power for a long time. We have a generator for the fish room that can run the pumps and filters, but doesn't generate enough electricity to power all the heaters. If the temps in our tanks drop into the 70's for more than a few hours, we may have problems. Even if we bring the tanks back up to normal temps pretty quickly, the fish, rams especially, seem to get chilled and become subject to secondary infections. The discus, being larger and more hardy (yes, discus are pretty hardy) do not seem to be affected by the short-term drop in temps. The other interesting thing about these symptoms is that even though we also breed angels and discus, we have never seen any of these symptoms show up in any other species of fish other than the rams. I don't know if they are just more sensitive than some of the other fish.

I'm not an expert, but just from our experience, these secondary symptoms will not show up for days or even a couple of weeks. Could it be iridovirus? Possibly, but since no one has been able to demonstrate a direct connection between the virus and these symptoms, and we don't own an electron microscope, we may never know. That, plus the fact that there is no known medication for treating viruses, makes it difficult to identify or treat. We have never kept gouramis in any of our tanks. We run a closed system, rarely bringing in fish from outside sources. When we do, they are QT'd for at least a month before introducing them to our other tanks. Thinking that these symptoms may have been bacterial or fungal, we have tried a wide variety of medications, including those previously mentioned in other posts, including medicating their food, but it seems that once the white spots or the dark coloration begin to show, it's usually too late and we have to remove the fish from the tank.

Hopefully, someone else will have some other ideas.
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Old 02-15-2014, 01:36 AM   #12
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The first two days the male GBR was following his gf around the QT like a bind puppy. The last 2 days he was hanging right above the spraybar.

Today he was no more.

The last remaining female GBR (out of the 2 mated pairs) does not seem to be affected by the disease.

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