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Old 09-23-2013, 02:28 AM   #181
FlyingShawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostoneric View Post
in the "dual" setup, the suction on the side with the canister filter would be strong enough that the air powered side might even flow downward because the water would flow in the path of least resistance through the tubing to the canister side. (other path being through the soil)
I was thinking of using a JetLifter to power the air side (they have a REALLY impressive flow rate), so that possibility hadn't even occurred to me, but there's definitely a chance that you're right and the canister might overpower it anyway.

I'm not aware of any hard data about the actual flow rates the JetLifter is capable of, so I'm not sure there's any way to find out short of building and testing it. I might try that (worse case I just remove the second uplift and cap it), but first I'll ask Stephan of SwissTropicals if he knows of any flow data.
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Old 09-23-2013, 03:46 AM   #182
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I just had this exchange over email with Stephan Tanner of SwissTropicals.com (quoted with permission):

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Originally Posted by FlyingShawn
Are you aware of any data about what sort of flow rates the 16" JetLifter is capable of? I know it would be partially dependent on the strength of the air supply, but I'd probably be dedicating a pump to it (thinking of using a Tetra Whisper 20, but might even go up to one of the two outlets on a Whisper 60).

I'm thinking of connecting the JetLifter to a PVC UGF that would also serve as the intake for a canister filter (Rena XP3). Look at the bottom picture of this post to help you visualize it:
[link to my earlier post]

The concern is that the canister would have such a strong flow rate that it would pull water down the JetLifter instead of them both working together to pull water through the UGF. I'm hoping that the JetLifter is powerful enough to keep this from happening, but if there isn't any flow data I'm not sure there's any way to find out without building and testing it. Even if you don't have any data, I'd appreciate an educated guess!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan Tanner
The 8" does ~100 gal/h but as you said, that depends on airflow, the taller ones can pump even more.

Now, I would never connect two pumps, airlifters or any other device to the same source (pipe). Hydrodynamics dictates that when flow gets disturbed, the resistance increases several fold; hence if water comes out of a pipe into a T-connector and the flow in both directions is not balanced the resulting turbulence would severely affect both sides. You might lose more net flow than say the lifter might provide, so de facto there would be less going out than before. A canister changes its flow due to clogging over time, so balancing it is almost impossible. I would simply skip the canister, the undergravel is already sufficient for the whole tank.
In other words: the hybrid design is not one of my better ideas. I still haven't given up on the idea of having a secondary air-based system for aeration and redundancy, but am still brainstorming effective ways to do it (sponges are an obvious option and Stephan suggested a corner HMF, but I'm not sure I want to take up that much space in my fairly narrow 52gal display tank and that's a topic for another thread).

Going back to my earlier picture of the complete-loop UGF (what Coolnik called a "equalized pressure manifold"), are there any downsides to this setup compared to the original U-shaped design from Liam?
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Old 09-23-2013, 04:00 AM   #183
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why not build two separate complete loops? one powered by canister another by air lift?

I just completed my version of a custom pvc setup this weekend. I did a complete loop and using my awesome engineering degree, just kinda eyeballed the different spacing for the intake holes.

My setup looks like this; DIY PVC undergravel in a loop, powered by a 2213 with 2215 prefilter. Matrix around the PVC and both eheims full of matrix, I also have an air powered Tetra Brilliant Sponge Filter in the same tank.

I'm all for a custom canister powered undergravel filter, but with shrimp, having an air powered sponge filter is a must also. Between the bacteria on the sponge for them to graze on and the additional aeration both are highly beneficial for shrimp.
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Old 09-28-2013, 01:41 PM   #184
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Liam, did you ever post the pictures of your latest-generation Purigen reactor? I tried searching to see if they were in a separate thread, but couldn't find anything.
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Old 01-13-2014, 03:18 AM   #185
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I know this thread has been dead for awhile but I was hoping for some advice. I'm setting up a 40b shrimp tank and would like to try a UGF setup. Would a fluval 306 be a good size? Also, 1/2" PVC was used in this build, but with a bigger canister and tank would I be better with 3/4"? Substrate will be akadama aswell, but would small to medium sized lava work as a good substitute for seachem matrix for around the UGF?
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Old 01-13-2014, 03:25 AM   #186
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You can use 1/2" PVC for the under gravel portion to keep lower profile and just attach 3/4" adapter to the section that connects to your filter.
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Old 01-13-2014, 06:58 AM   #187
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You can use whatever piping fits with your filter. I like half inch pvc because it's easy to work with and you can get whatever flow you want by drilling more or less holes.

You can use lava rock instead of searches matrix, but try to make sure the pieces are a good size. Larger than the holes on your pipes, but not by much.
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Old 05-19-2014, 02:31 PM   #188
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Hey there. So just a couple of quick questions as I am getting ready to do a 20 gallon high. How far apart are the holes drilled and what size bit do you use? Mordalphus did you ever post the purigen reactor? I did a search but couldn't find it. Where is it placed in regards to the UG Filter? On the intake or the output side? Thanks!!
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