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Old 11-10-2013, 03:47 PM   #1
Soothing Shrimp
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guppy genetics question


My Ruby eyed Albino Platinum White threw less than half a dozen gray (?) fry while the others look APW. ALL Ruby/Black eyed BTW from this same eyed fem.

If they are albino, why was the darker body color thrown (albeit an extremely small percentage)?

Are these darker colored ones het for APW, or should they be culled?

I'm a total noob at guppies. Thanks!
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Old 11-10-2013, 03:50 PM   #2
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Was the male the same breed?

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Old 11-10-2013, 03:51 PM   #3
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I believe so. I just bought the fem, but it's from show stock.
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Old 11-10-2013, 03:56 PM   #4
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Albanism is recessive trait. Even if the male and female are both albino, you're only going to get 50% albino F1 max. Conservatively, you can try to breed your F1 to try to throw some albino, if they don't then I would class as cull.

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Old 11-10-2013, 05:41 PM   #5
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If guppy Albinism is a simple recessive, then two albino guppies when bred together would throw 100% albino because they would have to be homozygous for the phenotype to appear, so something else is going on here.
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Old 11-10-2013, 11:02 PM   #6
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I read somewhere that guppies can "hold" sperm deposited by different males for up to 5 months? Unless you only have 2 you are breeding, and raised them from fry from your own stock, it's so hard to say. They are the most promiscuous fish (the million fish), and throwbacks and surprises abound.
Maybe your guppies are slipping out for some strange?
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Old 11-10-2013, 11:28 PM   #7
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http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/l...enetics-53447/

I admit to not understanding the entire chart(s). If they can be trusted, though, to get white you would need a guppy that is carrying a double set of three recessive genes. Assuming both parents are white, according to that chart their fourth gene needs to have at least one dominant allele (blue). It would be possible for both of them to be carrying the recessive allele as well, which would make some of the offspring full recessive for all four - transparent. If your female was definitely a virgin and has only been in the presence of this one male, then maybe that is what you are seeing.

If she had mated before you got her or introduced her to the other white male, then yeah, she's carrying sperm from previous males.
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Old 11-11-2013, 12:00 AM   #8
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The recessive trait here is clearly Albinism. However there are more than one "Code" for skin pigment and traits. It is very much possible that somewhere in the lines there is a... Heterozygous trait for the gray phenotype. Making it appear, but in a smaller quantity than the recessive white trait.

Think about it in terms of Humans. Two people who suffer from albinism get together, have children and 3/4 children have ablinism, the fourth doesnt. Why? because there is more than one deciding factor as to what the skin pigment is going to be.

These will continue to appear in your lines as far as i can tell. They might have to just be the culls

Maybe read this, i made it last year. Its a little weird on how i worded it and tried to explain things but it may help. Keep in mind i have not read it in a while so i may have contradicted what i said earlier. Also the thread is an easy to understand guide to Mendelian Genetics http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...906&highlight=
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Old 11-11-2013, 01:42 AM   #9
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Interesting stuff. Thanks for helping, folks!

I sent an inquiry to the breeder I bought these from. If you read my Albino Platinum White thread, you know that I had one with dark eyes that I assumed was ruby.

Turns out that that the one he sent along as a hit gift REALLY IS A BLACK EYED WHITE.

He's been working on the line for about 3 years now and outbreeds the APWs with them every 3 or 4 generations for optimal health. In fact he won the IFGA AOC class last year with his Black Eyed White Line! *swoon*

So now, not only do I have the rare Albino Platinum White fry, I have the even RARER Black Eyed White fry, and some dark (grays?) that popped from recessives.

Mystery solved...and yeah....I'm ECSTATIC! They are beautiful!
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Old 11-11-2013, 01:45 AM   #10
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best advice i can add is contact the seller. if they are a good breeder they will be able to answer and questions you have. im not great with genetics. but the breeder should be able to help with this one. there are albino strains that breed true and all fry will be albino. you will have to cull the whites to keep the highest grade possible and that will take time. if there are more than one body color i would divide them and go from there
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Old 11-11-2013, 01:49 AM   #11
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Congrats, Soothing!
Don't be too quick to cull anything until you see what develops-just separate them for a bit. You might throw some babies out with the fry-water
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Old 11-11-2013, 01:54 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art by Stef* View Post
Congrats, Soothing!
Don't be too quick to cull anything until you see what develops-just separate them for a bit. You might throw some babies out with the fry-water
-Stef*

separating is a form of culling....
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Old 11-11-2013, 01:55 AM   #13
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Lucky you! So happy you got something even more wonderful than expected, Soothing.

+1 on keeping the grays... you never know, they might end up being something new and fabulous, too.
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Old 11-11-2013, 02:03 AM   #14
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Yepper. Plan on keeping the grays in their own tank.
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Old 11-11-2013, 02:13 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wicca27 View Post
best advice i can add is contact the seller. if they are a good breeder they will be able to answer and questions you have. im not great with genetics. but the breeder should be able to help with this one. there are albino strains that breed true and all fry will be albino. you will have to cull the whites to keep the highest grade possible and that will take time. if there are more than one body color i would divide them and go from there
That's what I did. Good thing I did too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art by Stef* View Post
Congrats, Soothing!
Don't be too quick to cull anything until you see what develops-just separate them for a bit. You might throw some babies out with the fry-water
-Stef*
I like the way you think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elli View Post
Lucky you! So happy you got something even more wonderful than expected, Soothing.

+1 on keeping the grays... you never know, they might end up being something new and fabulous, too.
Absolutely! Thanks for the encouragement!
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