New "Rorschach" Guppy I'm working on. Rorschach Report 05/06/2014 Update - Page 2
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:07 PM   #16
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Here is a brief (not) history of the development and addressing some questions.
My foundation stock 4 years ago:


Fancy Pants


Yellow Snakeskin


Red

I was not too concerned with color, rather size and finnage and structure to support fins. I wanted them to look like bettas, not Show Guppies.
They were picked from a LFS that is no longer is existence. However, when getting feeder guppies for a sunfish, there was this cool large Endler in the mix. It bred with one of my females, and I got these (Not the sword):



I didn't really want Endler in the mix, but he gave high extended dorsals, sturdiness, and longevity. This original Edler mix/hybrid is the last remaining one I have. The pic was taken recently. Yes, he is 3 1/2 years old!
Breeding him and his siblings produced some er...mishaps:



and pretty:



I took select fish for their length, dorsals, and strong peduncles. I choose L O N G females. I know the plain Jane females are more desired to breed, but I chose ones that looked like males, which is why I probably have more females than males in my broods (?) Male w/Female underneath.



Thus, Chocolate Cherries were line bred:




And Frosted Cherries (Dilute Chocolate Cherries):



I was not concerned with color, but wanted new blood/outcross, so earlier this year I got high fin extended dorsal Blue Grass Metalheads. They are a little smaller than my lines, but had the finnage. Bred them with the CC's and got these:



Bred these "muddled" mood-rings (colors change overnight) back to the darkest CC and metalheads I had, and thus the Rorschach was born. Fry from these are what I am now currently working on. (2nd generation)

Breeding extreme finnage is a man made desire. These fish would never survive in the wild. Like a persian cat to a cougar, or a pug to a wolf. If you house them with fin nippers, it's like throwing a fishing lure to a bass. However, they are hardy and have no problems swimming, and hold their own. The body form and endler influence contributes to that. They are not the skinny-waisted/big bustle tail variety. The older ones do tend to "rest" on plants like a betta. They are not aggressive like a betta, and like most male guppies, constantly display and dance. No bent spines, unless geriatric or old timers. All my fish are kept in planted tanks.
Mobility/breeding ability is not an issue:



-Stef*
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Old 11-08-2013, 11:49 PM   #17
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beautiful fish, i like the choc cherrys best
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Old 11-09-2013, 12:08 AM   #18
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The rorshach guppies, wow, never seen anything like that before.
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Old 11-09-2013, 02:01 AM   #19
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You said you didn't want a show guppy but when you finally get your strain set you should show these. They are lovely. Nice work. Also give one dozen to the ifga to market on your behalf. Pretty soon your selling them for $75 a trio.
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Old 11-09-2013, 02:07 AM   #20
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Have you read any work from Philip Shaddock?
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Old 11-09-2013, 02:15 AM   #21
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Gorgeous! Great write-up on your process, too. I love the chocolate cherries!
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Old 11-09-2013, 07:06 AM   #22
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Thanks, (*blush*) all.

amcoffeegirl: I didn't do any research at all on breeding guppies, like I did with these bettas. I briefly looked up ifga years ago to see what show standards were for guppies, to see how mine compared to others and the standard, when I first got them. I used a mental picture of a betta for my model, and my own private standard. Something I would enjoy looking at, large and healthy. Something that looks like a tank of male bettas. From there, it was trial and error, selection, and lots n lots of time. I just now looked up who Philip Shaddock was, and looks like interesting reading. (I noticed from the covers of his books that his examples have the same elongated, wide peduncle area as my guys) I personally don't like the clear or cellophane gups -might as well get a glass catfish if you want to see a living encyclopedia chart or innards, so I tried to steer clear of anything that would look like that. Appeals to some, but I like color and designs cause I'm an artist

I am going to try improving and "setting" the Rorschach line, and also making them available for people who like them, but it's going to take a few generations.
Like a lot of people, I am limited on space, so it's going to take a little longer.
I also have my hands and space full with the recent betta boom.
When I get my ducks in a row, I will be hitting y'all up for advice on ifga for the Rorschach.
I hope to offer Bettas, Chocolate Cherries, and those who I can't use in my breeding program as RAOK and sale here in the very near future.

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Old 11-09-2013, 11:57 PM   #23
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I want more photos of those blacks ones!! Those are amazing!
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Old 11-10-2013, 03:59 AM   #24
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Philip shaddock does a lot of guppy gene crosses a documents them as you have done. He has a Facebook and a forum and you should post your line for him to see. Just a thought. I loved reading his findings and results. He does more than just the see through guppy. I love guppies and yours are up there. Btw judges love large guppies. They are easier to see. Lol
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Old 11-10-2013, 12:51 PM   #25
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I am so excited at the interest shown. I am kicking myself because when the Rorschachs' started cropping up, I culled quite a few because they appeared too dark. Angelfish ate good. But the ones that caught my eye are the jet black with the pale designs going up the body-no defined mosaic, lace, grass, or any other pattern-just random. A few individuals stuck out like a sore thumb, and these I kept and bred and their fry/juvies are showing the same traits.

I will post pics sometime this week of the handful I'm working with.

Also, what is really bizarre, is when I made this post, google informed me it was Hermann Rorschach's birthday. I had no clue.
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Old 11-10-2013, 12:54 PM   #26
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Wow those colors are amazing
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Old 11-14-2013, 07:39 AM   #27
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More updates, pics, and game plans...

Been weeding out the Chocolate Cherry Influence.
(Still not sure about the heart shaped tail, but it's growing on me)
Young male and juvy example:




These two young'uns are close, but no cigar:



These young females and juvy gals are keepers, and what I'm aiming for:




Young juvy male with Rorschach Papa.
Dad looked exactly like him at this age.



Another promising boy. They DO get darker as they mature. the bluish tail base turns pale yellow/whitish designs creep up the body, like "Jupiter" (aptly named), the male above him.
(Excuse his tattered fins-netting mishap. Grim reminder to only use clear plastic cups to catch, like a betta) I would prefer a blacker eye on this juvy, though. Working on "Getting the red out." Pour in some Visine? Just kidding.



After I inbreed a few generations to "lock in" the Rorschach design, I will add pure black HD guppy to the mix. Solid black guppy breeders have a hard time keeping them jet black-colors eventually bleed through, which is exactly what I want. Sorry solid black guppy breeders I am using and appreciating your hard work
I don't want to use Tuxedos, Moscows, or Pandas because I am looking for solid black heads-not white/light. Also, Pandas (very cute) will decrease my size, which I worked quite a few years on. The blue grass HD metalheads I introduced in March helped to contribute to the design, but decreased size a little. My CC's boosted the size back up.
I want the Rorschach large.



I have quite a few dark hatches right now from first generation Rorschach. They are still tiny fry, but as they grow, I'll add pics and developments.
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:12 AM   #28
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Very nice Stef!

I like the black ones!
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Old 11-14-2013, 02:21 PM   #29
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Are you aiming for B&W or do you want some yellow in there too?
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Old 11-14-2013, 03:52 PM   #30
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Nice work and interesting thread.
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