The "One-Two Punch" Whole Tank Algae Treatment - Page 15
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Old 08-23-2013, 02:10 AM   #211
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Anyone use matricide 14 instead of flourish excel?
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:19 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by jfynyson View Post
JI'll keep experimenting around to see if there's a dip dose of Excel (glutaraldehyde) that I can do to kill this stuff. If not I'll move to vinegar or citric acid and possibly combinations of Excel, H2O2, acid...
Will be interested to see your results. I do know:

1) H2O2 becomes a much stronger oxidizer at low pH. I've used it in combination with vinegar for cleaning driftwood and such, but only outside the tank.

2) Algaefix (Busan 77 and equivalents) increases absorption of Excel (glutaraldehyde, Metricide, etc.) and therefore increases the biocidal potential. Metricide 28 is a combo of these two ingredients.

Stef also made a discovery recently. She added dried banana leaves from our yard to a small pseudo-planted tank, intended as a conditioner for bettas, but it also made some BGA that was present gradually disappear. Repeated it in another, properly planted larger tank with BGA on the filter outflow - same result. I'm not sure if it's working in the same way as things such as barley straw are speculated to work (gradual release of H2O2), or if it's something specific to the banana leaves. Also did a test with it against thread algae, but no effect.
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:14 PM   #213
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I am thrilled to say that the combination of Algaefix & Excel is showing signs of some dead & dieing greed beard / fuzz algae !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually used Tetra's Algae Control which as the same as API's Algaefix & used a 2.5-2.6% soln of glutaraldehyde as opposed to SeaChem's Excel however the glut was equivalent in concentration. I used the equivalent of Excel's initial dose and Algaefix's recommended dose of 1mL / 12gal.

I cleaned the tank & did my water change as typical then I added the Algaefix dose followed by the Excel. I did however do a couple spot treatments here & with with Algaefix prior to refilling the tank during water change. Those areas are showing similar results. I'll continue to monitor and any areas that survive this treatment I'll try spot treatments with Algaefix and then a full tank Algaefix w/o Excel is see if that's a variable that matters.

In the pics you can see the velvety carpeting fuzz on the anubias and the amazon swords. If you look close you can see it turning gray & in some areas it's turing brown and is very easy to remove now with my fingers. This green beard / fuzz algae when healthy is very vibrant green and cannot easily be removed from the leaves without causing harm to the leaves. You can pull a few fibers of the algae off with your fingers but using a scrub pad or even a Magic Eraser yeilds no algae removal. Now that it's dieing it's coming off nicely !

Last edited by jfynyson; 10-16-2013 at 06:54 PM..
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:18 PM   #214
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Anyone use matricide 14 instead of flourish excel?
Both use glutaraldehdye as active indgredient. Go for it...no worries.
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:19 PM   #215
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Both use glutaraldehdye as active indgredient. Go for it...no worries.
Just make sure you get your dosage correct since metricide is much more concentrated.
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:26 PM   #216
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Just make sure you get your dosage correct since metricide is much more concentrated.
Sorry yes, the concentration per the MSDS for Met.14 is 2.6% while SeaChem's MSDS claims 2% (I've seen some folks say 1.5% though). I've been adding 2.6% glut to my tank but I make mine from 50% active glut!
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Old 09-01-2013, 11:36 PM   #217
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I tried this method yesterday, and while all my (black brush?) algae now looks weakened and pathetic, all 7 of my juvie BN plecos died within 12 hours of the treatment.

Specs:
50 gallon low-tech planted tank, estimated 40 gallons water
Added 16 tbs H2O2 (4 tbs per 10 gallons - I figured none of my livestock were all that delicate, so after I added 2 tbs per gallon and no one looked stressed, I bumped it up to the "full" dose. Stupid, stupid me.)
Ammonia, nitrites = 0; nitrates below 50 ppm
TDS ~ 900
pH ~ 8.0 (Tap water here is close to 8.3, 8.4, and I've been slooooooowly adding SeaChem Neutral Buffer because I wanted to get my pH close to 7 to increase the odds of BN breeding.... too bad I murdered all my breeder BNs)

Plants:
Bacopa
Water wisteria
Java fern, on driftwood
Jungle Val
Italian Val
Small Amazon Swords
Egeria/Elodea densa (anacharis)

Livestock:
5 brown BN Plecos
2 albino BN Plecos
1 old, scraggly momma guppy
?? week old guppy fry
1 male betta
1 one-eyed Black Moor goldfish

Filtration:
Rena XP2 canister filter, turned off for the 15 minute treatment
Marineland Penguin Powerhead (170 GPH) running two sponge filters

Here's what I did:
Step 0) Prepare approximately 25 gallons of dechlorinated replacement water, in buckets next to the tank, waiting for showtime.
1) Turn off canister filter
2) Remove sponges from Penguin Powerhead so it's just providing water flow, no biological filtration
3) Turn off air to bubble strip
4) Add Hydor Koralia Circulation Pump (rated 850 GPH - you said good flow, I got good flow!)
5) Add 10 tbs peroxide (approx. 3 TBS per 10 gallon estimated volume)
6) Wait 5 minutes, constantly re-orienting powerheads for full "washing machine" effect
7) Add 6 more tbs peroxide, since nobody looked stressed. This is the step I most regret.
8) After 17 minutes (I was aiming for 15, but don't think this is all that far off from the goal), I turned on the air pump to the 18" air strip, and added the sponges back onto my Penguin Powerhead, to allow some of my good bacteria to start processing the peroxide. I also removed the Hydor Circ Pump, since it was literally flattening most of my wisteria.
9) Drain 1/2 volume of tank into almost literally any random watertight container I could find, since I was aiming for a speedy water change, and all of my water-change buckets were full of replacement water.
10) Start adding replacement water. I kept an eye on the thermometer, and even with the influx of room-temp water, the temp never dropped more than two degrees. The heater was plugged in and on for most of the water change process.
11) Turn on canister filter, so full arsenal of good bacteria can start processing the H2O2.
12) Add slightly over 1/2 of Flourish Excel dose (i.e., 3 capfuls)
13) Finish topping off tank and dispose of waste water all before the 1 Hour mark (i.e., one hour from when I added the peroxide).
14) Add remainder of Flourish Excel dose (for a total of 5 capfuls, as instructed)

Everyone survived the immediate process. The old lady guppy was swimming at an angle within an hour of the end of the whole battle, and within 2 hours, she and my oldest male BN were dead. A total of 5 BNs were dead before I went to bed (say, 6 hours after the One Two Punch maneuver) and I woke up to the remaining 2 also floating. They all seemed to be extra-puffy, like they'd managed to swallow air, but I couldn't bring myself to necropsy any of them. I thought my differently-abled goldfish was also going to the great tank in the sky, since he seemed to be at a funny angle and resting more than usual on the substrate, but he survived the night and now looks fine. My betta, of course, is invincible, and while I was adding water, I did notice a few guppy fry that seemed none the worse for wear.

As far as plants go, some of my egeria looks melty, but still looks like the vast majority will survive. My wisteria, which had been the greatest victim of the algae, looks greener than ever before, and my java fern looks like it couldn't care less. A lot of my vals had been suffering before the 1-2 punch, since it was also a major host for the BBA and I'd cut most of the leaves in half in the past week, so while they look sad, they look no sadder than they did before the 1-2 attack.

I'll update on my plants, since I know anacharis and Vals are both reported to be sensitive to this double-punch. If I had it all to do over again, I definitely would have used less H2O2. I think anyone that attempts this technique should be prepared to NOT see anything during the 15 minutes of H2O2, and should keep in mind that any damage to fish might not show up even for several hours after the water change is complete. If I had been more patient and had more will-power, I wonder if my beloved BNs might have survived.

Sigh. Live and learn, I suppose.
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Old 09-01-2013, 11:57 PM   #218
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I tried this method yesterday, and while all my (black brush?) algae now looks weakened and pathetic, all 7 of my juvie BN plecos died within 12 hours of the treatment...
.
I know algae can be frustrating and I'm sure this works for some, but really risking your fish to get rid of algae with this treatment, I don't get that. There are 'safe' ways to fix your setup.
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Old 09-03-2013, 08:17 PM   #219
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Glad to hear something works on the green fuzz. If its in my 20g goldfish tank - couldn't I just remove fish for the 2 hours or so to do the treatments and therefore less risk to them?
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Old 09-12-2013, 12:32 AM   #220
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used this method today and afterwards noticed very strong smell coming from tank. kind of reminded me of diy co2 solution. not pleasant.

hair algae is dying off and turning white. smaller patches of BBA are turning red. no dead inhabitants. still too early to see full results.

i used 6 tbsp in about ~20g of water. 30 mL of Excel after.
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Old 09-12-2013, 01:31 AM   #221
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used this method today and afterwards noticed very strong smell coming from tank. kind of reminded me of diy co2 solution. not pleasant.

hair algae is dying off and turning white. smaller patches of BBA are turning red. no dead inhabitants. still too early to see full results.

i used 6 tbsp in about ~20g of water. 30 mL of Excel after.
I hope everything turns out ok....that's too much Excel I believe (5mL/10gal target charge should've been 10mL in your 20gal tank...assuming you have 20gal of water); adding 3x the Excel may be the odor you're smelling....does it smell just like the bottle of Excel ? I wouldn't know as I use straight glutaraldehyde (has that sweetish pungent aldehyde odor)
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Old 09-21-2013, 05:48 PM   #222
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I followed your directions from the first post and am pleased to say that I seem to finally have won the war on clado. When I upgraded my lights from t5no to led I got a huuuuge clado outbreak that just hasn't been going away. I would seriously pull pounds of clado out of that tank every week or 2. Needless to say my other plants suffered, and my tank looked like crap. Now my tank looks much better, and all traces of the offending clado are gone. Careful maintenance will hopefully keep it away haha.

I did combine this treatment with a very, very large water change and it resulted in a mini cycle for my tank. Nobody died, but I did have white cloudy water for a few weeks until everything balanced out. Now my water is crystal clear and I can enjoy looking at my tank again. Wahoo!
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:57 PM   #223
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DarkCobra-

I tried your method on my 25 gallon tank; it had what was probably the same type of staghorn algae ("Staghorn on Steriods" )that you described in post #1. This time I dosed 3.5 tablespoons per 10 gallon since the algae was pretty bad; after about 2 hours ALL the staghorn turned red and so far no issues with fish and shrimp (Though the shrimps are a shaken up a bit from the massive flow). Pictures are attached. I wasn't able to get any pre-treatment pictures because I forgot, sorry, but it's pretty much the same thing in the pictures, just the color is gray to black. Thank you for sharing this technique! I will update it in a few days to show you the overall result.

Got a bit artsy on one
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Old 10-03-2013, 04:18 PM   #224
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Just a FYI for folks that fear killing their fish, which should be 100% of you, do a large water change before and after treatment(say 8 hours after). The by products of the killing algae, bacteria, organic matter release into the water can be removed easily with a simple water change.

It is always better to use "many small little hammers", than one large one when dealing with pest if you have things in the tank which you do not want to harm.

Algae are symptomatic, they tell me folks or myself are not focusing on the plant growth correctly. So that's the no# 1 area to focus on. Not just add algae killers and ignore that. But that said, when you do get algae, products like these can and do help to get rid of the mess you made. But they should never be an ongoing part of anyone's routine.

I do not have good horticulture skills from my algae killing ability.
No one does.

when you do kill algae or use chemical treatments, do the water changes, this helps reduce the O2 demand from all the organic materials and increases the O2, algae do not like water changes as a rule also.

I noted that 1/2 doses has similar effects on green algae and also shrimp(still killed them) with Algaefix/busan 77.
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Old 10-03-2013, 04:19 PM   #225
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DarkCobra-

Did you get a chance to test the Glut decay?
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