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Old 01-22-2004, 09:41 PM   #31
anonapersona
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Yes, I am familiar with that article, it is really well done. pH and hardness of the tank water is well covered, but the different reactions of the various yeasts to different water for mixing, whether acid or alkaline to begin with, was not discussed as I recall.

The posssible addition of baking soda is never mentioned. He mentions in passing that champagne yeast tolerates acidity, but it seems to me that this is a huge effect.

I once did a mix that had very little baking soda, and when the mix ran down too quickly I tried to add an extra 1/2 teaspoon to the bottle. It was a classic grade-school volcano! After a week the water must have been as or more acidic than household vinegar. I tried to test it but of course the pH test only goes to 6 and I didn't pursue dilluting with distilled until I could get a measurement.

Anyhow, that's my theory, the baking yeast likes baking soda (and high KH and alkalinity) and the champagne yeast likes acid more than alkalinity (no baking soda)

anona, amateur experimenter
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Old 01-23-2004, 12:36 AM   #32
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Umm, are you sure you read this article? b/c there is ALOT of stuff about the water to keep the yeast in as far as hardness and pH...it's long, but the infos still in there.

Actually, the article mentioned not to use baking soda for any yeast. The Na, sodium from baking soda it says is toxic to the yeast. This is also why, if you use a water softener w/ salt pellets for your shower water, not to use this softened water as it is loaded with Na. regular buffered tap water isn't made of baking soda as the buffer, but of bicarbonates, HCO3-, from limestone (at least where I live).
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Old 01-23-2004, 03:14 PM   #33
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Hmm, I have read it several times but that was a long time ago when I was first trying to understand the concept, this time I just skimmed to see if that info was there, I'll have to look again.

I began using the baking soda because it seeems that the hagen system uses baking soda -- though I admit that the packet contents taste saltier than baking soda an my tests show that salt does retard the bubbles.

I have done side-by-side tests of bread yeast with and without baking soda and the baking soda wins. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
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Old 01-23-2004, 04:11 PM   #34
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Well if that's what works then there's no reason to change. It must be that you have water with low KH so adding baking soda for buffering doesn't do as much damage than letting unbuffered water turn very acidic. I don't need to add baking soda because my KH is ~ 20.

Well, after one week my bpm bpm has greatly decreased to about 6 from 22. I used 1 cup of sugar, 6 cups water(pH=8.2, KH&GH=~20), and 1/2 teaspoon of Red Star active dry yeast "ideal for bread machines & traditional baking needs." First this classifies as bread yeast right? I'm pretty sure it does. Secondly is one week the expected amout of time for my batch? I hear of people going up to 3 weeks.
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Old 01-24-2004, 03:46 PM   #35
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That is a very steep drop, one cup of sugar in 6 cups of water perhaps could be increased.

My water is not of a low KH, KH = ~8 and aged tap pH is 8.2. So, it is not that much different than yours.

If you are up for an experiment, you might try a bottle with a teaspoon or 2 of baking soda added. When I was doing the experimenting, I carefully measured the average bubble rate over 2 minutes with a stop watch and kept records, though there were a bit spotty on details sometimes.
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Old 01-24-2004, 08:26 PM   #36
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So the baking soda made it work longer or quicker? I aiming for consistancey over a few weeks period.

I only used 1 cup of sugar b/c I ran out, I was going to use 2. As for water, 6 cups sould be enough, since its pretty close to the top of a 2 liter bottle.

Also, how much yeast did you use? I'v read that most recipes call for 1/4 teaspoon as opposed to the 1/2 teaspoon I used so that could be another reason why it didn't last long.
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Old 01-25-2004, 01:33 AM   #37
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Could be the one cup of sugar.

In the Hagen bottles I use 1/2 cup of sugar to 2 cups of water (I measured it once but now forget what the meausre was) with 1/4 teaspoon of yeast and 1 teaspoon baking soda.

In a 2 liter bottle, I think most people use 2 cups of sugar, water to the widest part of the bottle, not up into the narrow part. I can only guess about the yeast and baking soda for that, I'd try 1/2 t of yeast and 2 t of baking soda. You may need to vary each and record the output, starting and at one week, to be sure what works best.

Sorry I can't help more, I ended up doing more experiments on gelatine that on sugar. In the Hagen bottles, I quickly settled on the bread yeast and baking soda, though ale yeast did well occasionally, it was unpredictable, I don't know why. I still think line leakage may be a part of the preformance, as one tank has a long line and the other a short line, and this may have tainted the results I got. The Hagen bottles run 3 to 4 weeks on that mix.
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Old 01-28-2004, 04:06 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonapersona
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo737
I already know about optimal CO2, KH/pH charts and have Chucks Calculator...how did we get on this topic, I never asked for help about this.

I was wondering if there is some kind of CO2 alcohol gas seperator and if that check valve with filter will hurt my CO2. The filter looks nothing more than cotton fibers, but you never know.

And yes, KH goes up to 22 and far beyond! MY GH is the same, 22...I have liquid rock. I'm using the AP KH/GH test kit, it is reliable but is tetra better?
Sorry to have taken it off track, I just like to caution folks about knowing the limits. Glad to know you are up to speed on that.
Hello all.

If you make a bubble counter that is filled with water, it ought to strip out any alcohol -- though I have tasted mine and never noticed any alcohol, just a lot of fizz. It will also stripout the entrained yeast that I suspect as the culprit in the snot that forms on airstones and the end of tubing. The bubble counter/scrubber is a great thing to add, it can save fish if it allows you time to catch a foam up before it hits the tank, but it is another source of leaks, so observe carefully for awhile.

I was never lucky with those check valves, the only time I ever really counted on one it failed and I got nasty water on the carpet. I suspect the CO2 and water makes a carbonic acid that is hard on the plastic. The CO2 proof ones are so expensive, I am careful to leave the generator on top of the aquarium until it is producing enough gas with some pressure behind it to be sure no siphoning can occur.

Re tests; I understand from other posters that most GH and KH tests are fine, including both AP and Tetra.

With that high a KH, you may need more bubbles than that, indeed. With a KH of 9 I don't use much more than that in my 59 gallon tank (actually 28 bpm) to hit my 20 ppm target for CO2. With your water cut to a KH of 6, you could be on target, what does Chuck's CO2 calculator tell you?

With DIY CO2, all you can do is to know your target pH for proper CO2 levels and then add volume (more bottles or bigger bottles) or efficency (better diffusion, contact time, or reactors) until you reach that target without going into dangerous territory at the start when rates are at the highest. Great fun if you like to tinker.
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Old 01-28-2004, 04:07 PM   #39
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Hello all.
I don 't kow what all this fuss about the seal on the bottle is about.read and learn.
Take a piece of your tubing and go to your nearest hardware store. Take your tubing an measure with the little gadget they use to measure the drills.
buy a drill two sizes smaller tha the tubing.
after you drill the hole on the bottle cap.
cut the tubing at a sharp angle.
if done correctly the tubing wil partialy go through the hole in the cap.
Use a pair of needle nose pliers and pull the tubing trhough the hole in the cap.
you will notice that there is no way that it will ever leak.
I recomend you go for the silicone tubing. It works really well.
Any dought e-Mail me at ptaquati@hotmail.con
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Old 01-28-2004, 10:41 PM   #40
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ptaquati, I'm not sure what your copied and pasted message that starts, "Hi all..." from anonapersona has to do with tubing and leaks...

Anyway, I have done your method and it has worked well. I also have done other ways with brass nipples and vey have been leakless too. There is more than one way. As far as silicone, you can't "read and learn" everything you take in. There are far better and cheaper tubings to use than silicone...

I started a post regarding this...

http://www.plantedtank.net/forum/vie...?p=41491#41491

...click on the link on the first message.
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Old 01-29-2004, 05:44 AM   #41
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I too have used this method in the past, but eventualy put a plastic connector (like you use to link to airlines) through the hole, as occasionaly the plastic around the hole would cut through the soft silicon tubeing I use, now I have simple nipples on the bottles which I can just slip the tube off from when its time for a clean and refil.
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