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Old 07-29-2013, 05:40 PM   #16
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And you don't think the Gouramis could be doing anything? I used to think that my Angels weren't messing with my Amanos, nearly 1.5" long, until I saw one with a shrimp half down its throat. I also used to think Guppies wouldn't harm shrimp until I saw one with a full-grown RCS half way down also.

Bottom line, the only way to know for sure that your shrimp are safe from predators is to remove the possibility.
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Old 07-29-2013, 06:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmytruong87 View Post
You can try take out that rock for check. If you still have shrimp death, then it could be something wrong in your water.
Nitrates should be 0ppm
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
I'm not sure nitrates are supposed to be 0 in a planted tank. I was told from several sources that 20 to 40 ppm is quite fine. I actually posted asking about this in these forums (and others). Or are you saying they should be 0 for amano shrimp ?.
you are correct your nitrates should be between 20-40ppm for a healthy planted tank, that includes one with fish in it.

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To cancel out the possibility of any copper in the tank throw in a small sack of cuprisorb just to be safe, My red flag there was excel, I have heard from people on the forum that excel is not good for shrimps. I would recommend a search for that topic. I'd post a link myself if I wasn't on my phone. Good luck!
personally i would go with carbon, or purgin they will remove more of the bad things that could be in the water.


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Originally Posted by jrman83 View Post
And you don't think the Gouramis could be doing anything? I used to think that my Angels weren't messing with my Amanos, nearly 1.5" long, until I saw one with a shrimp half down its throat. I also used to think Guppies wouldn't harm shrimp until I saw one with a full-grown RCS half way down also.

Bottom line, the only way to know for sure that your shrimp are safe from predators is to remove the possibility.
its possible the Gouramis are harrassing the amanos, but they wouldn't be huddling in the open if that was the case, they would be hiding. and it doesn't explain the blue gills.
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Old 07-29-2013, 06:13 PM   #18
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I also did some research for blue gills and amano shrimp. Did not find anything.

No CO2. I dose Excel though, and I have only started doing so recently (3 weeks ago). I dose 3 ml daily for 33 gallons, I'm pretty sure I am not overdosing.

I have not seen any fish acting as if they are lacking oxygen either.

Surface film disappeared when the tank got settled.

I have a Eheim 2213 running on this tank. So there is alot of water movement.

The only dead zone could be the "cave" formed in my driftwood. But I vaccum that part every water change ( 25% weekly ).

I dose liquid fertz daily using the PPS Pro ratios.

What else can I say ? At the start of my aquarium I did do a full treatment of Paraguard. The shrimp did not seem affected. Maybe its a latent effect ? We are talking about 2-3 months ago.

New line of inquiry: Is it possible its something in my tap water? Though I changed 40 % of the water yesterday. If it was something int he water they would all be dead today I guess.

No new deaths btw, though they are all still huddling in that same corner.

BTW, thanks alot for the follow through Aquatic Delight, its much appreciated.

excel has no effect on shrimp. its an old wives tale that is still spread. i've done massive excel doses on shrimp and shimp and fish tanks and lost none.

the fish would be the first to show if O2 was low. so i'm with you its got to be something else.

that one deadzone is not the issue, but since you mentioned it, did you do any prep work to the Driftwood, and where did you get it?

i doubt paragaurd is the issue, but running carbon or purigen will remove any trace amounts remaining.

tap water is always a possibilty. how old is your house? does it have copper pipes?
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Old 07-29-2013, 06:45 PM   #19
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The gouramis are juveniles (couple of months) and none of the shrimp bodies were missing any obvious parts. The female took to hiding from the male in the driftwood "cave" where I think the shrimp hung out before. Maybe they see a predator and moved along to a corner of the tank not frequently visited by the gouramis, ou in the open beneath some plants.. ? I don't know, feels like grasping at straws.

I ran with carbon for 48 hours after the treatment. Guess I could do another 48 hours now in case anything is in there.

So what we see on my picture of the shrimp would be blue gills ? Can't even find pictures of that on google. I'm a bit confused by this whole blue gills thing. A lack of O2 would be very surprising with the amount of plants that are present. Also it would not be a new thing they would have showed these symptoms from the get go.

The driftwood was boiled a couple of years ago. Then used in my old setut for 2 years. Then scrubbed and reboiled before insertion into this set up.

I'll check but its possible I have copper pipes. At the same time wouldn't I have noticed this before ? I have always used tap water.

Thanks again for your answers everyone ! We will get to the bottom of this (hopefully).
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Old 07-29-2013, 07:11 PM   #20
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New line of inquiry:

I use Prime for my water changes. I heard there are some "shrimp safe" dechlorinators. Might it be that Prime is our prime suspect?
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Old 07-29-2013, 07:48 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vin View Post
New line of inquiry:

I use Prime for my water changes. I heard there are some "shrimp safe" dechlorinators. Might it be that Prime is our prime suspect?
not the prime, again tons of us use it in our tanks. including myself


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vin View Post
The gouramis are juveniles (couple of months) and none of the shrimp bodies were missing any obvious parts. The female took to hiding from the male in the driftwood "cave" where I think the shrimp hung out before. Maybe they see a predator and moved along to a corner of the tank not frequently visited by the gouramis, ou in the open beneath some plants.. ? I don't know, feels like grasping at straws.

I ran with carbon for 48 hours after the treatment. Guess I could do another 48 hours now in case anything is in there.

So what we see on my picture of the shrimp would be blue gills ? Can't even find pictures of that on google. I'm a bit confused by this whole blue gills thing. A lack of O2 would be very surprising with the amount of plants that are present. Also it would not be a new thing they would have showed these symptoms from the get go.

The driftwood was boiled a couple of years ago. Then used in my old setut for 2 years. Then scrubbed and reboiled before insertion into this set up.

I'll check but its possible I have copper pipes. At the same time wouldn't I have noticed this before ? I have always used tap water.

Thanks again for your answers everyone ! We will get to the bottom of this (hopefully).

okay so we should probably insert something to give the shrimp a new hiding hole, to help ease stress upon them.

i would run carbon to be safe. sounds like the driftwood isn't an issue.

copper pipes don't always leach xppm, the amount fluctuates bases upon age of pipes and water stuff. but only older homes have them, at some point in the 90's (i think maybe earlier) they switched to PVC because the cost of copper went through the roof.
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Old 07-29-2013, 08:00 PM   #22
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Ok, so new hiding spot for the shrimp, something like a buried piece of copper piping maybe? (JOKING!)

I'm pretty sure my appartement building falls in the old category. I'll go check if they changed the pipes at all or what not.

Thanks again! I'll do a quick update when I get home, see if I got anymore deaths or not.
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Old 07-29-2013, 10:57 PM   #23
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Update:

No noticeable deaths. Except I can never count more than 7 shrimp and theoretically I have 8 left.

Here they are doing whatever they are doing in the corner:


I also thought of a new line of inquiry:
Its getting hot in here, its possible the tank went u to 29 C (roughly 84 F), though I did not notice it while I was here.

Also to keep in mind, the shrimp that died were the smallest.
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Old 07-29-2013, 11:03 PM   #24
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On another note I found this :
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=170249

Maybe I have algae growing I don't even know about !
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Old 07-30-2013, 04:09 AM   #25
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his shrimp look like malawa shrimp, i've been seeing them sold as amanos more and more often. they look very similar as juvies, but malawa can be breed in fw fairly regularly.


i have no idea whats going on. i honestly don't think it is a diet related color change because, as i understand it, the color change is across the entire body, not just one small area.

maybe the ones that died, just happened to be weak?
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Old 07-30-2013, 05:26 PM   #26
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I have no clue.

Starting to think I am down to 7 shrimp since I never counted up to 8 even when they were all huddling in the corner.

Last night after I fed the fish most of the shrimp went off to explore and probably feed. I could only spot 4 at the same time.

Then not very much later they were all back in the corner. No clue whats going on. Never lost any amanos before always thought they were close to bombproof. I know Takashi Amano puts them really early in his tanks even before the cycling is finished...

And just to be clear, is there really an abnormal color on my shrimp ? I kind of don't see it...

I guess the case stays open and might become one of them cold cases.

Thanks again for the time you spent on this investigation.
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Old 07-31-2013, 01:46 PM   #27
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my amanos dont mind excel overdose at all.
there are shrimp-specific water conditioners like "Jbl Biotopol C"
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Old 07-31-2013, 02:28 PM   #28
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I'd stop adding any chemicals to your tank except water dechlorinator for a while and see if they perk up...
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Old 07-31-2013, 04:17 PM   #29
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I overdose with excel without issues



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Old 07-31-2013, 04:31 PM   #30
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Quote:
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And just to be clear, is there really an abnormal color on my shrimp ? I kind of don't see it...

I guess the case stays open and might become one of them cold cases.
i'm talking about the carapice. ive never seen it it being the only body part to be blue.
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