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Old 07-28-2013, 03:08 AM   #61
pandacory
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I ran it successfully on a standard 29g high tech (30" length) at about 16" above the top. So I guess that is about 34" or so above the substrate. I really like the freshwater bulb combo they sell with it. I don't have a ton of different bulb experience, but it is on the greener side vs. 5000k t8s or the colormax/67000k combo I am currently running. It makes turquoise rainbows and their breeding dance really pop. The panda cories dark spots look distict, as well as the markings on harlequins. Tiger lotus looked more magenta than the paler red of my current bulbs, but that could be other factors also.

It grew hc and glosso end to end With no noticable problems. I am also not the best gardener by any stretch of the imagination. I dont think it was incredibly focused but I didn't complain about spill either, but it has been some time since I've run it. It's sitting in my closet right now since I am running low med light 20 longs and my 29 got converted into a sump.

I am pretty sure they make 36" version of the same light. The only thing you'll have to watch is that they have a built in timer so be sure to coordinate properly. That is one of those little things I would probably overlook and then let it drive me crazy for like 6 weeks before fixing it. Lol.
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Old 07-28-2013, 03:10 AM   #62
Phil Edwards
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crazymittens,

I would say a good plant sump needs to have the following characteristics:

1. A sealable input chamber. Even if it's just using duct tape to cover the seams where the tank water's entering, it should be sealable.

2. Good room for biological and mechanical media.

3. As much reservoir space as you can manage given your space limitations.

Everything else is just bells and whistles. 10 years ago I had a super ghetto DIY sump using a plastic trash can with a lid as a filter chamber. I just drilled a bunch of holes in it and stuck it in a 20 long. A submersible pump ran the line into the tank and it worked pretty well for the times. A few years later I used the same 20 long, but this time added glass panes to make baffles. I drilled a hole in one side for the effluent input, had that run over a baffle into a chamber with a biomedia container made out of eggcrate on a 3/4" pvc riser and had filter padding over that. The remaining 70% of the tank was reservoir. This time I had an external filter and drilled into the side. because there was no vertical downdraft I was able to cover it with a sheet of glass. That sump worked very well for a long time.

Hope that helps a little. Sorry I don't have pictures, that was a long time and a couple computers ago.

Check out UGDags' thread, he's got a great sump for one that's commercially made.
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Old 07-28-2013, 03:19 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazymittens View Post
Since there are sumpy people watching this thread...is there a 'somewhat concise' theory for freshwater sump design?

Obviously everyone's situation is different, but maybe a list of 'necessities for FW sump design' should be documented. Perhaps I am overcomplicating things...but most of my searching hasn't come up with a consensus on design. Tom's post earlier in the thread is probably the closest I've seen.
The only things I can really think of from putting my sump together and running it for the last year, well, 2 sumps, but we don't need to talk about how I broke the firat one while moving:

1. Build it out of acrylic! All those glass dividers get heavy quick!
2. If the downpipe enters from the top, make sure there is a section of static water height. Terminate the drain just under the surface. If it goes too deep it is too much back pressure for a siphon to form, and if it is not beneath the water line at all states of operation, you will get gurgling noise.
3. I hate foam blocks. The next sump I run will either have filter socks or just a prefilter over the return pump feeding through an inline polisher like a nu clear or similar.
4. Don't hard plumb the return line through the lid. This seems like a good idea at first since you want to seal the sump. I thought I would just seal the whole thing and feed the return plumbing through a bulkhead. Big mistake! That is the biggest source of vibration and an easily avoided noise source.

Thats all I can think of right now. I have notes somewhere, but hopefully someone with more experience will chime in.
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Old 07-28-2013, 05:50 AM   #64
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The BA planted tank substrate was some of the best looking planted tank substrate that I have seen. Looking forward to seeing this monster come together.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:07 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazymittens View Post
Since there are sumpy people watching this thread...is there a 'somewhat concise' theory for freshwater sump design?

Obviously everyone's situation is different, but maybe a list of 'necessities for FW sump design' should be documented. Perhaps I am overcomplicating things...but most of my searching hasn't come up with a consensus on design. Tom's post earlier in the thread is probably the closest I've seen.



totally agree! these sump discussions have been very informative. rbarn has a great project going as well that i've been following...he's dropping some coin.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:12 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pandacory View Post
The only things I can really think of from putting my sump together and running it for the last year, well, 2 sumps, but we don't need to talk about how I broke the firat one while moving:

1. Build it out of acrylic! All those glass dividers get heavy quick!
2. If the downpipe enters from the top, make sure there is a section of static water height. Terminate the drain just under the surface. If it goes too deep it is too much back pressure for a siphon to form, and if it is not beneath the water line at all states of operation, you will get gurgling noise.
3. I hate foam blocks. The next sump I run will either have filter socks or just a prefilter over the return pump feeding through an inline polisher like a nu clear or similar.
4. Don't hard plumb the return line through the lid. This seems like a good idea at first since you want to seal the sump. I thought I would just seal the whole thing and feed the return plumbing through a bulkhead. Big mistake! That is the biggest source of vibration and an easily avoided noise source.

Thats all I can think of right now. I have notes somewhere, but hopefully someone with more experience will chime in.
pandacory, are you referring to the poret type blocks used for bio filtration or the generic types used for mechanical-say, initially in a wet/dry chamber?

thanks,
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Old 07-30-2013, 01:32 PM   #67
Phil Edwards
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I got a good look at our substrates yesterday. I've got to say I'm really excited about them. I'll take pics of the different sizes and colors today. I still don't know when I'll actually get the tank moved and filled, but it's a step in the right direction.
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Old 07-30-2013, 06:52 PM   #68
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Looks like it is going to be a great build to watch, Phil! Subscribed

Also, congrats on your new job opportunity. Having a satisfying job you like makes all the difference in the world.
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Old 07-30-2013, 06:54 PM   #69
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Thanks my friend, I appreciate the kind words. I really hope I can make this setup all that it can be. There's too much possibility with a tank like this to half-ass it. It would be an injustice to the hobby! haha
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:20 PM   #70
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It's not quite the update I was hoping to give, but here's a little something. After reading up on the various styles of overflow and downdrafts I've chosen to go with a modified beananimal system. It seems the best option for the hardware I've got and hope to have. Because the flow through the tank's not going to be as heavy as a reef I'm fairly confident that a single 1.5" siphon draft (downturned elbow) will be able to handle all the flow the eventual pump will put out. The upturned elbow will be left open for flood control in case of blockage and to allow me to tune the siphon so that it's silent. Due to the type of overflow I've got and the placement of the holes there's going to be some noise, but it'll be fairly quiet. I don't mind a soothing trickle or gurgle.

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Old 07-31-2013, 01:42 AM   #71
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Thanks for the input on the sump stuff, guys - I found a great post over at the tombarrreport.com forum that goes through a ton of scenarios and designs. I'll continue the sump discussion in my 125G thread.

Phil, you've gone that far, why not just add the third emergency drain? Never worry about a clog again. That being said, if your GPH is truly that low, then you have tons of drainage. I really enjoy the ability for the 2nd downturn drain to be 100% blocked and the system still function like normal with no intervention.
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Old 07-31-2013, 02:29 AM   #72
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Crazymittens,

I'm limited to two since that's what the tank already has. I'm not in a position to be able to drill a third hole. I may be changing the main siphon elbow and line from 1.5" to 1" and leaving the second as 1.5 to handle both the slight overflow inherent in the BA design and as an emergency flood control line. I've used a similar design with a pair of 1.5" Durso downdrafts in the past on my 225. Only that time I had them tied into a single drain line, which wasn't as efficient or quiet as the separate line design is.

As far as sumps go, I've been refining a design over the years and have what I think is the perfect large planted tank sump design. I just need to find someone to make it for me (I can't work acrylic at that level) at a price I can afford. Keep your fingers crossed!!
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Old 07-31-2013, 10:55 PM   #73
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Substrate! What you see in the pic are samples of Rio Escuro (black) at 1, 3, and 5mm sizes, and Rio Cafe (brown) at 3 and 5mm sizes. There wasn't an open bag of 1mm Rio Cafe for me to grab a sample from. All soils come in darker and stay dark as long as their container is sealed. These have been in open bags for a week or so and have started to dry out a bit. I'm very impressed at the grains' cohesion even after a week with some drying. I'd originally thought to go with 3mm only, but I don't think it's going to work out very well. Instead, I'm going to use the 5mm (same size as the typical grains in the "Name Brand" stuff we all know) and cap it off with 3mm. I'm tempted to use 3mm only in the first 6 inches of the tank to give small species like HC, Hairgrass, and Glosso a better chance of rooting strongly. We'll see. It's all dependent on how much of which kind I can get my hands on. A uniform 4" deep substrate in this tank is 6 cubic feet of material...that's a LOT to take off a pallet at one time.

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Old 08-01-2013, 12:06 AM   #74
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Nice!! Good idea to use 5mm on the bottom, will mean ultimately less material required, yes?

Forgot that you only had two drill points...you could do that overflow box like JasonNZ, but then have the full Beananimal inside the exterior box...? Just throwing ideas around.

Guessing you're doing DSM to get the carpet started then?
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Old 08-01-2013, 12:47 AM   #75
Phil Edwards
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crazymittens,

I may end up doing just what you described. It depends on finding a good glass shop and confidence in my ability to build an external overflow that won't break and drain a hundred gallons or more onto the floor. I'm fairly certain it'll be a matter of many months before I'll be able to get a suitable sump made. That'll give me a lot of time to plan and practice. In the meantime I'll be using some big huge Eheims to filter what'll be a plant grow out tank. Due to the extreme size of the tank (18 sq. ft. area) I won't be doing a dry start. In fact, once I get the substrate in there I'll probably just circulate water for a couple weeks so I can monitor nutrient release. That's something I've been very curious about ever since people started using this type of material and reporting heavy algae issues at the start.

I'm getting a strong suspicion that this build is going to take a lot longer than I thought it was going to at first. It will eventually be a shrine to aquarium tech, but the road will probably be a long one.
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