is cycle complete 22 days?
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Old 07-06-2013, 02:22 AM   #1
pinkman
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is cycle complete 22 days?


i think my cycle is complete but just want to make sure.
this was a fish-in cycle
here are some of my numbers from my log book, i just put dates where i
seen significant changes:

6/14 start
6/20 - ph 6.4 ammonia .25 nitrites .25 nitrates 10
6/24 - ph 6.4 ammonia .50 nitrites .25 nitrates 10
6/26 - ph 6.4 ammonia .00 nitrites .00 nitrates 5.0
6/29 - ph 6.4 ammonia .00 nitrites .00 nitrates 10
6/30 - 7/04 sames as above
7/05 - ph 6.4 ammonia .00 nitrites .00 nitrates .00
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Old 07-06-2013, 03:44 AM   #2
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Hmm, are you heavily planted? It's a little odd your nitrates just dropped off like that. Otherwise, I'd say you are cycled.
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Old 07-06-2013, 04:36 AM   #3
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heres a pic:
and just re-tested same parameters

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Old 07-06-2013, 07:19 AM   #4
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You are cycled and with your low fish load plants are using up all of NO3. You also have a very small BB colony. Given that you already have fish in the tank:

Either start adding fish very sloooow in small numbers

or

Overfeed the tank a bit to build up the BB colony.

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Old 07-06-2013, 06:52 PM   #5
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Your tank is cycled only if you do not intend to add any more fish. If you want a normal stocking level then you have several months more of cycling to do. Now that you have a tiny trace of bacteria you need to grow more to handle more fish waste.

You could add more bacteria by purchasing any product with Nitrospira in it.
Add some of this with each addition of fish. Keep the product in the fridge.

Do not waste your money on any other 'bacteria in a bottle' product- they contain the wrong species of bacteria.

I would not trust that cycle. The pH is so low that very few nitrifying bacteria really got going. Some did, you can tell by the nitrite. These bacteria may have come in on the leaves of the plants, but they are not reproducing very fast in that soft water. I think your plants got established and are handling the ammonia from the fish, and are removing whatever nitrate the small population of bacteria is producing.
When you add more fish the tank will cycle again and again, causing more stress to the fish each time.

Here is what I would do:
Raise the KH (and therefore the pH) to about 3 dKH and pH 7.0 or higher. Raise the GH also to at least 3dGH. Add some other minerals such as KH2PO4 and Micros to be sure the bacteria and the plants have all the minerals they need. I am not sure which the bacteria need, but cover all the bases with fertilizer.
Add more plants.
Add Nitrospira with each addition of fish and monitor conditions like a hawk.

Alternate:
Run the fishless cycle in a bucket with whatever filter media will fit in your filter. When it is done add this media to the tank and add more fish.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is the fishless cycle:
Cycle: To grow the beneficial bacteria that remove ammonia and nitrite from the aquarium.

Fish-In Cycle: To expose fish to toxins while using them as the source of ammonia to grow nitrogen cycle bacteria. Exposure to ammonia burns the gills and other soft tissue, stresses the fish and lowers their immunity. Exposure to nitrite makes the blood unable to carry oxygen. Research methemglobinemia for details.

Fishless Cycle: The safe way to grow more bacteria, faster, in an aquarium, pond or riparium.

The method I give here was developed by 2 scientists who wanted to quickly grow enough bacteria to fully stock a tank all at one time, with no plants helping, and overstock it as is common with Rift Lake Cichlid tanks.

1a) Set up the tank and all the equipment. You can plant if you want. Include the proper dose of dechlorinator with the water.
Optimum water chemistry:
GH and KH above 3 German degrees of hardness. A lot harder is just fine.
pH above 7, and into the mid 8s is just fine.
Temperature in the upper 70s F (mid 20s C) is good. Higher is OK if the water is well aerated.
A trace of other minerals may help. Usually this comes in with the water, but if you have a pinch of KH2PO4, that may be helpful.
High oxygen level. Make sure the filter and power heads are running well. Plenty of water circulation.
No toxins in the tank. If you washed the tank, or any part of the system with any sort of cleanser, soap, detergent, bleach or anything else make sure it is well rinsed. Do not put your hands in the tank when you are wearing any sort of cosmetics, perfume or hand lotion. No fish medicines of any sort.
A trace of salt (sodium chloride) is OK, but not required.
This method of growing bacteria will work in a marine system, too. The species of bacteria are different.

1b) Optional: Add any source of the bacteria that you are growing to seed the tank. Cycled media from a healthy tank is good. Decor or some gravel from a cycled tank is OK. Live plants or plastic are OK. Bottled bacteria is great, but only if it contains Nitrospira species of bacteria. Read the label and do not waste your money on anything else.
At the time this was written the right species could be found in:
Dr. Tims One and Only
Tetra Safe Start
Microbe Lift Nite Out II
...and perhaps others.
You do not have to jump start the cycle. The right species of bacteria are all around, and will find the tank pretty fast.

2) Add ammonia until the test reads 5 ppm. This ammonia is the cheapest you can find. No surfactants, no perfumes. Read the fine print. This is often found at discount stores like Dollar Tree, or hardware stores like Ace. You could also use a dead shrimp form the grocery store, or fish food. Protein breaks down to become ammonia. You do not have good control over the ammonia level, though.
Some substrates release ammonia when they are submerged for the first time. Monitor the level and do enough water changes to keep the ammonia at the levels detailed below.

3) Test daily. For the first few days not much will happen, but the bacteria that remove ammonia are getting started. Finally the ammonia starts to drop. Add a little more, once a day, to test 5 ppm.

4) Test for nitrite. A day or so after the ammonia starts to drop the nitrite will show up. When it does allow the ammonia to drop to 3 ppm.

5) Test daily. Add ammonia to 3 ppm once a day. If the nitrite or ammonia go to 5 ppm do a water change to get these lower. The ammonia removing species and the nitrite removing species (Nitrospira) do not do well when the ammonia or nitrite are over 5 ppm.

6) When the ammonia and nitrite both hit zero 24 hours after you have added the ammonia the cycle is done. You can challenge the bacteria by adding a bit more than 3 ppm ammonia, and it should be able to handle that, too, within 24 hours.

7) Now test the nitrate. Probably sky high!
Do as big a water change as needed to lower the nitrate until it is safe for fish. Certainly well under 20, and a lot lower is better. This may call for more than one water change, and up to 100% water change is not a problem. Remember the dechlor!
If you will be stocking right away (within 24 hours) no need to add more ammonia. If stocking will be delayed keep feeding the bacteria by adding ammonia to 3 ppm once a day. You will need to do another water change right before adding the fish.
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Helpful hints:

A) You can run a fishless cycle in a bucket to grow bacteria on almost any filter media like bio balls, sponges, ceramic bio noodles, lava rock or Matala mats. Simply set up any sort of water circulation such as a fountain pump or air bubbler and add the media to the bucket. Follow the directions for the fishless cycle. When the cycle is done add the media to the filter. I have run a canister filter in a bucket and done the fishless cycle.

B) The nitrogen cycle bacteria will live under a wide range of conditions and bounce back from minor set backs. By following the set up suggestions in part 1b) you are setting up optimum conditions for fastest reproduction and growth.
GH and KH can be as low as 1 degree, but watch it! These bacteria use the carbon in carbonates, and if it is all used up (KH = 0) the bacteria may die off.
pH as low as 6.5 is OK, but by 6.0 the bacteria are not going to be doing very well. They are still there, and will recover pretty well when conditions get better.
Temperature almost to freezing is OK, but they must not freeze, and they are not very active at all. They do survive in a pond, but they are slow to warm up and get going in the spring. This is where you might need to grow some in a bucket in a warm place and supplement the pond population. Too warm is not good, either. Tropical or room temperature tank temperatures are best. (68 to 85*F or 20 to 28*C)
Moderate oxygen can be tolerated for a while. However, to remove lots of ammonia and nitrite these bacteria must have oxygen. They turn one into the other by adding oxygen. If you must stop running the filter for an hour or so, no problem. If longer, remove the media and keep it where it will get more oxygen.
Once the bacteria are established they can tolerate some fish medicines. This is because they live in a complex film called Bio film on all the surfaces in the filter and the tank. Medicines do not enter the bio film well.
These bacteria do not need to live under water. They do just fine in a humid location. They live in healthy garden soil, as well as wet locations.

C) Planted tanks may not tolerate 3 ppm or 5 ppm ammonia. It is possible to cycle the tank at lower levels of ammonia so the plants do not get ammonia burn. Add ammonia to only 1 ppm, but test twice a day, and add ammonia as needed to keep it at 1 ppm. The plants are also part of the bio filter, and you may be able to add the fish sooner, if the plants are thriving.
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:47 PM   #6
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thank you, for the help and information. much appreciated.
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Old 07-07-2013, 06:16 PM   #7
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I wouldn't trust that cycle either. Is that aquasoil your using. If so did you presoak it before introducing it to the tank or something. Aquasoil should raise the ammonia levels alot higher than .25ppm. To me it appears things are just getting underway. I wouldn't consider that tank heavily planted enough to take on the cycling load to complete so soon. Nice tank though. I like the way you laid it out.
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Old 07-08-2013, 01:29 PM   #8
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22 days? I've waited less than 14 before stocking with fish...
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Old 07-08-2013, 01:45 PM   #9
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yep it's cycled, but as said above, the colony is probably very small. i suggest the few fish at a time route, but if you want to dump 10 tetra at a time now, dump something like Dr. Tim's one and only in at the same time to ease the increased bioload.
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