Overkill for sump flood protection?
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Old 05-16-2013, 05:36 PM   #1
le0p
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Overkill for sump flood protection?


So I'm building a sump and obsessing about flood protection. I'm using HOB Weir style overflows and will test water levels and such. I'm also considering using the TOM's dosing pump to ensure restart of the syphon after power out.

However, I just thought of this.. and while too expensive for me to do right now, I'm considering plumbing it in later on. What does the forum think? Overkill? Would it even work?

110v AC 25mm 1" Normally Open Brass NBR 2-Way Solenoid Valve: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific 110v AC 25mm 1" Normally Open Brass NBR 2-Way Solenoid Valve: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Basically, this goes on the siphon line and when the power goes out (the pump goes out) and this cuts water supply from the display tank if for some reason a siphon were to continue.

I think I'm just driving myself crazy here but wanted some other opinions...
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Old 05-16-2013, 05:56 PM   #2
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before I spent $80 on that, I'd go with the incredible bean animal sump design. read that page, and prepare to be amazed! Instead of throwing money and electricity at the problem, it employs incredibly smart and sly design.
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Old 05-16-2013, 06:14 PM   #3
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I wish I could've built that for my tank, but I feel like it's only appropriate for larger tanks that can accommodate 3 holes drilled into it.
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Old 05-16-2013, 06:21 PM   #4
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even without a herbie, or a bean
i PROPERLY SIZED DRAIN TUBE will not flood nor will it have reocuring false siphons

wetwebmedia has a lot of info on drain sizing and their true flow rates under normal gravity sihpon.
plus a sump should not be full, it should accomadate a take power off when setup properly. my return line has a hole drilled in it with a 1/8th drill bit to break siphon when pump turns off. it does its job in abou 3 seconds. and its set right at the water line so it doesn't make noise
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Old 05-16-2013, 06:26 PM   #5
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if the power goes out, water will collect in the sump up to the point when the tank water level and the top of the overflow are equal. you don't need that solenoid. so if your overflow is 1" below your tank water level, and your tank is 48" long and 12" wide, your sump will need to be able to hold an additional 2.5 gals (48X12X1 divided by 231). make sure you drill a hole on your output 1" below your tank water level or else it'll drain the tank to whatever level it discharges at (i.e. if you have the output discharging at the bottom of the tank, it'll drain the entire tank!).

hope this helps.
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Old 05-16-2013, 06:38 PM   #6
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Default Re: Overkill for sump flood protection?

Keep it simple... especially with sumps. A properly done sump won't lose siphon or flood.

It's a lot to take in at first but it's simple once you understand!

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Old 05-17-2013, 03:54 PM   #7
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Alright, thanks everyone, I'll keep it simple. It's hard to get all the info absorbed at first, there's so much out there.
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Old 05-20-2013, 01:32 AM   #8
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Default Sump and Overflow design

First post on this site but I have been reading content here for a while.

Regarding sump and overflow design you have to assume it will flood. I had SW reefs for a years and it was guaranteed it would flood at some point (usually when I was on a business trip). The cause was the U shaped overflow tubes that lost a siphon or blocked something. Consistent top water additions (read automatic) is critical with a sump based systems. Without it you will lose your pump in your sump but it is also part of the problem in floods.

I set out to design a FW tank that would use a sump design so I can have automatic water changes and a place to put stuff. Most importantly it had to have flood prevention built into the system.

As mentioned above the beananimal overflow design is the way to go. It has multiple redundancies and nothing mechanical to fail. Every other design I have used is either loud or fail prone. The beanaminal design is silent and creates no sloshing of water. The other major item I did in my sump setup is to install a high water drain (flood prevention and allow for automatic water changes).

I have included pictures below. It was a bit terrifying drilling the glass tank holes but slow and steady with a drill press will do it. My next tank I am going to put the box in the tank on the back side to make for a cleaner look.

The other major item installed is a tank controller (Digital Aquatics Reef Keeper Lite) it makes life with a tank enjoyable. It controls lights, pumps, water change pump, CO2 controller, top off water, dosing, etc. A cheaper DIY controller is Jarduino which is based on the Arduino platform which I am going to use on a second tank.



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Old 05-20-2013, 01:37 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southerncross View Post
First post on this site but I have been reading content here for a while.

Regarding sump and overflow design you have to assume it will flood. I had SW reefs for a years and it was guaranteed it would flood at some point (usually when I was on a business trip). The cause was the U shaped overflow tubes that lost a siphon or blocked something. Consistent top water additions (read automatic) is critical with a sump based systems. Without it you will lose your pump in your sump but it is also part of the problem in floods.

I set out to design a FW tank that would use a sump design so I can have automatic water changes and a place to put stuff. Most importantly it had to have flood prevention built into the system.

As mentioned above the beananimal overflow design is the way to go. It has multiple redundancies and nothing mechanical to fail. Every other design I have used is either loud or fail prone. The beanaminal design is silent and creates no sloshing of water. The other major item I did in my sump setup is to install a high water drain (flood prevention and allow for automatic water changes).

I have included pictures below. It was a bit terrifying drilling the glass tank holes but slow and steady with a drill press will do it. My next tank I am going to put the box in the tank on the back side to make for a cleaner look.

The other major item installed is a tank controller (Digital Aquatics Reef Keeper Lite) it makes life with a tank enjoyable. It controls lights, pumps, water change pump, CO2 controller, top off water, dosing, etc. A cheaper DIY controller is Jarduino which is based on the Arduino platform which I am going to use on a second tank.




i've yet to have a tank flood that was not caused by carelessness
i top off my sump daily with a pitcher of water
i remove the tube that keeps the siphon going in my overflow box, once weekly during water change and stick a toothpick inside to clean it out.
return line has a siphon break that cuts siphon within 3 seconds

also you can have a single safe drain line. my 75 has a 1.5 inch drain line. it will never get clogged. my fish aren't even big enough to stop it assuming one made it to the overflow box

correct drain sizing and preventative care are KEY
just like every other portion of this hobby
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