Champagne yeast versus regular bread yeast.
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Old 05-27-2009, 06:38 PM   #1
bklyndrvr
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Champagne yeast versus regular bread yeast.


I have DIY co2 going to a 10 gallon tank. My setup is a Hagen co system and a 1 liter bottle tee'd together, going to a gas separator and then going to the Hagen Ladder. I've been doing DIY co2 for a little while now (about 2 monthes) and have no real issues. Once I create the mixture, after a couple of hours, the co2 ramps up and I get about 1 bps. Usually I swap out a bottle about a weeks time. By the end of the week, the output slows down to about 1 bubble ever 3 seconds. At that time I usually pour out most of the liquid, re add some sugar and a little baking soda (leaving the yeast gunk on the bottom) and the cycle starts over again.

So I did a little research and decided to try out champagne yeast. I ordered 4 packets from an Ebay seller and tried my first batch of champagne co2 yesterday. Here's what I noticed.

Using the same recipe (a rough estimate for sugar, yeast, etc) I noticed that I am not getting the same results that I had with bread yeast. After the over night, where I usually will have the breast yeast giving me 1 bubble per second, I'm only getting 1 bubble per 4 or 5 seconds.

My question is for the people who have used both breast yeast, and champagne yeast. Do you change the recipe that you used for bread yeast when you changed to champagne yeast? I know that champagne yeast is supposed to last longer, but does it produce less co2 when compared to bread yeast, since I know from experience, that bread yeast runs strong for the first couple of days and them peters out. Does champagne yeast produce less co2 but keeps going for a longer time?

I'm thinking I might replace the hagen and 1 liter with one 2 liter bottle. Any suggestions?
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Old 05-27-2009, 08:51 PM   #2
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I have found no noticeable or even measurable benefit from using champagne yeast over bread yeast with DIY. I find a 2 litre gave me more prolonged c02 output than the Hagen C02 canister when I ran both on the same tank. If you have c02 inconsistency issues or feel that you could benefit from increased c02. You could always double up and use one 2 litre DIY c02 bottle and double up with the Hagen DIY c02 using a seperate c02 diffuser to address any dead spots. If you are happy with DIY c02 all the power to you. Personally, FWIW, my suggestion would be to ditch DIY c02 and go with pressurized c02. For me the cost of pressurized co2 is well worth the hassle and trouble of changing over c02 bottles and the real possiblity that you may not be getting sufficient and consistent c02 with your DIY c02.
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Old 05-27-2009, 08:58 PM   #3
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Back when I still used DIY co2 I tried the champagne yeast from the local homebrew place. It seemed to prodcue co2 at a steadier pace over a longer period of time. The bread yeast would grow like hell and then crap out within a week. Make sure you check the temp s I believe champagne yeast grows better at a slightly lower temp then brad yeast. I was using two 2.5 gallon cat litter bottles for fermentors.
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:10 PM   #4
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Quote:
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Back when I still used DIY co2 I tried the champagne yeast from the local homebrew place. It seemed to prodcue co2 at a steadier pace over a longer period of time. The bread yeast would grow like hell and then crap out within a week. Make sure you check the temp s I believe champagne yeast grows better at a slightly lower temp then brad yeast. I was using two 2.5 gallon cat litter bottles for fermentors.


for my 30g i use 3 2 liters 2 with champagne yeast and 1 with bread yeast. i just switch out the bread one every 2 weeks or so while the 2 chapagne ones i start at different times allowing me to change one out every 3 weeks or so
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:51 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer_Simpson View Post
I have found no noticeable or even measurable benefit from using champagne yeast over bread yeast with DIY. I find a 2 litre gave me more prolonged c02 output than the Hagen C02 canister when I ran both on the same tank. If you have c02 inconsistency issues or feel that you could benefit from increased c02. You could always double up and use one 2 litre DIY c02 bottle and double up with the Hagen DIY c02 using a seperate c02 diffuser to address any dead spots. If you are happy with DIY c02 all the power to you. Personally, FWIW, my suggestion would be to ditch DIY c02 and go with pressurized c02. For me the cost of pressurized co2 is well worth the hassle and trouble of changing over c02 bottles and the real possiblity that you may not be getting sufficient and consistent c02 with your DIY c02.
This is my first foray into co2, and when I decide to go for co2 at home, I definately will go pressurized, but this tank is in my office on my desk, and honestly, I'm waiting for the day when someone from the buildings tells me that a fish tank is not allowed by regulation. I figure eventually it'll happen, so this is more of an experimental tank that will have to come down once someone finally yells at me.

Anyway, I noticed a little while ago that my 1 liter is putting out about 2 bubble every 3 seconds, and my hagen is only putting out 1 bubble per 5 seconds. I think if the output doesn't get better, I'll re-do my co2 in the hagen. I'm thinking I started out with too hot water and might have killed most of the yeast in that batch.
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:31 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bklyndrvr View Post
This is my first foray into co2, and when I decide to go for co2 at home, I definately will go pressurized, but this tank is in my office on my desk, and honestly, I'm waiting for the day when someone from the buildings tells me that a fish tank is not allowed by regulation. I figure eventually it'll happen, so this is more of an experimental tank that will have to come down once someone finally yells at me.

Anyway, I noticed a little while ago that my 1 liter is putting out about 2 bubble every 3 seconds, and my hagen is only putting out 1 bubble per 5 seconds. I think if the output doesn't get better, I'll re-do my co2 in the hagen. I'm thinking I started out with too hot water and might have killed most of the yeast in that batch.

O.K. this is understandable. I have 2 litre DIY c02 running on a 10 gallon planted tank that is doing really well. That tank appears to have reached that balance which finally results in good algae free plant growth. I use plain old bread yeast and have experimented with champagne and wine yeast. I change the brew every 3 weeks. The thing that I found helps a lot is to use a starter solution when mixing a batch. Basically, take 1 teaspoon of sugar, add to 1 cup water(tap works fine I find), microwave for 12 seconds, then remove and add 1/2 teaspoon yeast, and let sit. With the 2 litre bottle, fill with 2 cups sugar, 1/4 teaspoon baking soda, and less than 3/4 full with lukewarm or room temp tap water. When your sugar/yeast mixture in the cup of water foams(usually takes about an hour or so) add to the bottle and stir. I find that when I do it this way, the wait time between c02 consistent bubble out is dramatically reduced, regardless of champagne or wine yeast(using different yeast I found also did not result in any quicker fizzling out over the 3 week period) I dare say as much as by 12 hours. I should also mention that I have also experimented with adding things such as yeast nutrient and have not noticed a significant performance boost to justify paying for and adding the yeast nutrient. Overall, IMHO, I don't believe you will likely see a huge difference. It is not like if someone uses champagne or wine yeast that they will now all the sudden end up with optimum consistent 30 ppm c02 levels or even enough of a spike in extended c02 to compensate for the inconsistent and submarginal c02 provided by DIY c02. In theory, this is not a big issue if you keep your light intensity at 20 watts or so. In that case, it will become easier to maintain optimum c02 levels on 10 gallon or less tanks with DIY c02. At least that is my experience. I plan to transition to pressurized c02 but am in the process of having to empty by rooms in order to redo the carpet flooring with laminate, so everything is on hold for now. For me, I want the flexilbility of growing a good carpet of plants and ensuring that I can maintain it. Lighting and consistent optimal c02 are crucial to this. And with pressurized c02. I can easily tweak the c02 in the upper range to give the plants a jump start and monkey around with c02 output more easily.
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Old 05-28-2009, 02:48 AM   #7
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I create a starter solution also when I start a totally fresh batch. I also find that it dramatically speeds up the start up of co2. I wanted to try champagne yeast because I've read about it, and I found a seller on eBay where I paid less then $1 per pack. Since I paid around $2.50 for the three pack of bread yeast, it wasn't a huge difference in price. Well either way, by the time I left work, I was getting a nice 1 - 2 bps, so I'm happy for now. Let's see how long it lasts.

Thanks for all the advice
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Old 07-25-2009, 04:02 PM   #8
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I used to brew beer and such and the champagne yeast can withstand 7 to14 percent alcohol levels where the bread yeast is more like 2 or for. Try mixing 2 pounds of sugar to a gallon of water and use the highest quality yeast you can get and experiment for aquarium use try a little less sugar.
Anyways this may sound gross but it wont hurt you the way you test if you have the right amount of sugar to yeast and water ratio taste the solution after You have used it for 3 weeks or so and you you should not be able to detect any sweetness if you do use less sugar. The worse that can happen is you can stand the flavor and you get a buzz at solution changing time lol. If you drink it though FILTER IT THROUGH A CHEESECLOTH FIRST!
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Old 07-25-2009, 04:28 PM   #9
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When I DIY'ed it on a smaller aquarium, Champagne yeast was what I found worked best.

I believe the ability to withstand higher alcohol levels was the benefit to using brewer's and vintner's yeasts, as previously mentioned.

If I recall correctly, those strains of yeast were a bit more delicate than bread yeasts, and when I bought them they were in a refrigerator and needed to remain refrigerated.

Wonder if the poorer results were a product of the yeasts being out of refrigeration (during shipping)?
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Old 07-25-2009, 04:58 PM   #10
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"I believe the ability to withstand higher alcohol levels was the benefit to using brewer's and vintner's yeasts, as previously mentioned." Momotaro's qoute

That is correct when you look at the mixture the yeast is making equal parts co2 and alcohol so you are only getting 3 to 4% of the co2 versus 7 to 14 for the higher gravity yeast aka champagne or brewers yeast. Look online for High gravity yeast.
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Old 07-30-2009, 04:51 AM   #11
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yea, as others have said, it probably has to do with alcohol content. the yeast ferment the sugar into alcohol and carbon dioxide. some strains of yeast can survive higher alcohol concentrations that others (i.e., why beer is typically 4-8% alcohol concentration, but wine is like 13%).The wine yeast will likely produce carbon dioxide for longer than the bread yeast, as long as there's an adequate amount of sugar in the container. the degrees in the amount of bubbles could just be due to the amount of yeast you put into your mixture, a smaller population of the wine yeast than the bread yeast would cause less frequent bubbles.
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Old 05-04-2013, 05:04 AM   #12
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Old thread worth reading.
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