Metering(needle) valves selection for our CO2 pressurized system - Page 17
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Old 04-14-2013, 12:37 PM   #241
willygog
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Hi, im not sure what i need to do, but i have a standard co2 20lb tank, and it has a regulator and valve, but its not able to meter 1-2 bps, it can but its not stable. I am guessing that is the reason for the change.. are any of these valves still around, im not sure what i should use.. is the reg i have even worth changing over.. it was designed for .5cfm i beleive.. i can take a picture to go with this post if needed.. i know something isnt right but know nothing of this, i think even if i had the parts it would be difficult for me to put the parts in order..

will this valve work for me? 2F-H3L-V-SS-TC

Last edited by willygog; 04-14-2013 at 01:25 PM.. Reason: added model number
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Old 04-14-2013, 02:14 PM   #242
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ok i also found one of these would it be a better solenoid than standard solenoid on say any co2 regulator, and if not what makes this better? Burkert 2 Way Valve 1/4" Npt 211 211-NC-F-E-U24 Stainless 0-140 Psi
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:01 PM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willygog View Post
Hi, im not sure what i need to do, but i have a standard co2 20lb tank, and it has a regulator and valve, but its not able to meter 1-2 bps, it can but its not stable. I am guessing that is the reason for the change.. are any of these valves still around, im not sure what i should use..
Sounds like you need a better needle/metering valve. It could also be your working pressure on your regulator (what is it set at?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by willygog View Post
is the reg i have even worth changing over.. it was designed for .5cfm i beleive.. i can take a picture to go with this post if needed.. i know something isnt right but know nothing of this, i think even if i had the parts it would be difficult for me to put the parts in order..
A photo would be helpful, but it also sounds like your pressure gauges are not measuring units that have much meaning in our hobby. CFM is a measurement of flow, so it is difficult to ascertain anything. I would suggest replacing the gauges with ones that measure in pressure units (either the non-standard PSI/bar or the SI kPa).

Quote:
Originally Posted by willygog View Post
will this valve work for me? 2F-H3L-V-SS-TC
That looks like the Parker H3L metering valve; it will work. Many people are using it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willygog View Post
ok i also found one of these would it be a better solenoid than standard solenoid on say any co2 regulator, and if not what makes this better? Burkert 2 Way Valve 1/4" Npt 211 211-NC-F-E-U24 Stainless 0-140 Psi
I do not believe anyone has used that solenoid. In addition, note that it requires 208V for usage (which is quite unusual).
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A Primer to Pressurized CO2 and A Primer to Planted Tanks
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:45 PM   #244
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hello and thanks for the advice, yes the regulator isnt really for this type of application., it has a guage to show if its full or not.. then it has the metering valve which is a ball in a glass tube.. and it starts at .5cfm.. i guess i was just trying to find a less expensive way than a new regulator..
I'll see if there is anyone selling one on the trading post..
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Old 04-15-2013, 12:25 AM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willygog View Post
hello and thanks for the advice, yes the regulator isnt really for this type of application., it has a guage to show if its full or not.. then it has the metering valve which is a ball in a glass tube.. and it starts at .5cfm.. i guess i was just trying to find a less expensive way than a new regulator..
I'll see if there is anyone selling one on the trading post..
What you described is not a metering valve, but a flow valve. This is not suitable for our purposes, as it will not afford the fine control that is required.

It sounds like you need to purchase a needle/metering valve in addition to replacing the gauge on your regulator.
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Old 04-15-2013, 12:49 AM   #246
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i am going to bite the bullet, with starting from bare reg it isnt a cost saver ,, I was able to find a suitable one to get, its the Milwaukee MA957 with bubble counter ...100. to the door.. That good enough for a beginners unit?
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Old 05-03-2013, 06:39 PM   #247
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Hi, well i didnt buy a pre made unit after all, i found a ss-ss2 swagelok valve, and an aquatech regulator, i have it all plumed in but i found an interesting thing, right from the start this thing is puttin out 1 bps turned off, is there a way to reseat it , or what would the advice be.. i have it all done, no leaks, looks great but looks dont count.. soooo what can i do.. line pressure is preset from aquatech at 60psi.. is that a problem, i have another regulator unit that does have adjustment but i liked the looks of the aquatech .. help


Last edited by willygog; 05-03-2013 at 07:05 PM.. Reason: trying to put a pic up
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:26 PM   #248
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Swagelok factory sets those things there. It can go down lower, you just need to be careful not to close the valve with the needle or you might break it off.

All you have to do is loosen the larger allen and pull the handle out a little.
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:54 PM   #249
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hmm ok i'll see if i can figure that out...lol
thanks, i'll let ya know if it worked out ok or not
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:45 PM   #250
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worked fine thanks again,,
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Old 05-04-2013, 02:51 AM   #251
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Quote:
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worked fine thanks again,,
a little bit late to check your questions, and glad that both darkblade and oldpunk provided help and you got it taken care.

anyway, here is some instruction pictures, others who have the same question will have good idea how to adjust the metering handle.









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Old 06-04-2013, 06:02 PM   #252
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Is the ss-4bmg valve any good?
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Old 06-06-2013, 12:05 AM   #253
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Is the ss-4bmg valve any good?
answered.
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Old 08-18-2013, 09:19 AM   #254
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Post this just want to give some more options on choosing the right metering valves for our DIY CO2 rig build.
please post a picture of the metering valve if you are the lucky guy have one of the valves from the bottom of the list.

also in this thread.
*Solenoid valves selection
*Adjust bubble rate.



Metering/needle vales, Cv (flow coefficient) under 0.1 only


Swagelok 20 series needle valve, soft seat stem. Part number SS(B)-20R*
Orifice: 0.08"
Cv: 0.09 (at 2.5 turn full open)

Swagelok O series needle valve, soft seat stem. Part number SS(B)-OR*
Orifice: 0.08"
Cv: 0.09 (at 8 turn full open)

Pneumadyne (Pneumatic Control System), 700 series needle valve, Part number: C070301/C070501/C070601, made in UK
Thanks to kevmo911, who shine the light on this 700 series needle valve and present the .pdf data
Orifice: N/A
Cv: 0.09 (at 12 turn full open)

SMC AS2000 series needle valve, Part number: AS2???-*
Orifice: N/A
Cv: N/A ( At 4 turn SCFM is 0.88 SCFM, after 4 turn flow rate spike)

Clippard MNV-3/4 series needle valve, part number MNV-3* , MNV-4*
Orifice: 0.07"(MNV-3), 0.067"(MNV-4)
Cv: N/A (at 4 turn SCFM is 1, Cv is under 0.03 before 4 turns, after 4 turns, Cv spike)
owned

Ideal valve 52(brass)/54(stainless steel)--2 series, Part number 52-2-*, 54-2-*
Orifice: 0.0625"
Cv: 0.082 (at 20 turn, 22-24 turn full open)

Hoke 2300 series metering valve, 8 degree angle stem
Orifice: 0.062"
Cv: 0.075 (at 20 turn full open)
owned

Parker Hannifin NM series, Part number *-NM?-*-*-*-*
Orifice: N/A
Cv: 0.055 (at 14 turn full open)

Fabco NV55/FC55 needle valve, Part number NV-55, NV-55-18, FC-55
Orifice: N/A
Cv: N/A (approximately at 0.04, The SCFM is 1.7 at 10 turn full open, similar to swagelok 31 series)

SMC AS1000 Series needle valve, Part number AS120?-*
Orifice: N/A
Cv: N/A (approximately at 2.83 SCFM at 10 turn, but the flow curve is concaved, at 4.5 turn is 0.71 SCFM compare to NV-55 which is 0.95+ SCFM at 4.5 turn.
owned

Parker Hannifin HR series, Stem type 5, Part number: *-H5?-*-*-*
Orifice:N/A
Cv: 0.049 (at 15 turn full open)

Parker Hannifin NS series, Part number *-NS?-*-*-*
Orifice: N/A
Cv: 0.042 (at 14 turn full open)

Swagelok 31 series metering valve, Part number SS(B)-31R*(tested, orifice is too big at low turn)
Orifice: 0.062"
Cv: 0.04 (at 10 turn full open)
owned

Parker Hannifin HR series, Stem type 4, Part number: *-H4?-*-*-*
Orifice:N/A
Cv: 0.032 (at 15 turn full open)

Swagelok Belows-sealed metering valve, Part number SS-4BMG, SS-4BMW(weld port)
Orifice: N/A
Cv: 0.019 (at 6 turn full open)
(Tested, Orifice is too big, at low turn doesn't work well)
owned

Swagelok M series metering valve, Part number SS(B)-?MG*, SS(B)-?MA*
Orifice: 0.056"
Cv: 0.03 (at 9 turn full open)
double pattern, dual handle
Cv: 0.026 ( at 9 turn full open)
owned

Ham-Let HF1300 series metering valve, 3 degree stem angle, Part number HF13??-*-*
Orifice: 0.055"
Cv: 0.03 (at 11 turn full open)

Fujikin UN series metering valve, L mark on top of the vernier handle, made in Japan
Orifice: 1.8MM
Cv: 0.03 (at 14 turn full open)
owned

Hoke Millimite 1300 series metering vale, 3 degree angle stem.
Orifice: 0.047"
Cv: 0.024 ( at 18 turn full open)

Parker Hannifin HR series, Stem type 3, Part number: *-H3?-*-*-*
Orifice:N/A
Cv: 0.021 (at 15 turn full open)

Fujikin High Pressure series metering valve, Part number: N/A, made in Japan
Orifice: 1.6MM
Cv: 0.017 (at 12 turn full open)

Fujikin UN/DUN series metering valve, made in Japan
Orifice: 1.5MM
Cv: 0.015 (at 14 turn full open)

Ideal valve 52(brass)/54(stainless steel)--1 series, Part number 52-1-*, 54-1-*
Orifice: 0.0313"
Cv: 0.019 (at 20 turn, 22-24 turn full open, approximate Cv 0.008 -0.009 at 10 turn)

Parker Hannifin HR series, Stem type 2, Part number: *-H2?-*-*-*
Orifice:N/A
Cv: 0.014 (at 15 turn full open)

Swagelok 21/22 series metering valve, Part number: *-21???-*, *-22???-*,
These are the mystery discontinued swagelok precision low flow control valve, and thanks to kevmo911, who shine the light on the 21/22 series and present the .pdf data.
Orifice: 0.02"
Cv: 0.007 (at 8 turn full open)
owned(TESTED! Due to the small orifice and long needle stem of this valve, the actual CV/turn and flow rate at low turn is a real small number, 0.1 bubble adjustment is possible on JBJ bubble counter)
Kevmo911 is the hero to bring this metering valve back to life...

Hoke Millimite 1300 series metering vale, 1 degree angle stem.
Orifice: 0.047"
Cv: 0.011 ( at 18 turn full open)
owned

Hoke 2300 series metering valve, 1 degree angle stem
Orifice: 0.062"
Cv: 0.01 (at 20 turn full open )

Parker Hannifin HR series, Stem type 1, Part number: *-H1?-*-*-*
Orifice:N/A
Cv: 0.007 (at 15 turn full open)

Fujikin PUN series metering valve, made in Japan
Orifice: N/AMM
Cv: 0.004 (at 10 turn full open)

Swagelok S series metering valve, Part number SS(B)-SS* , SS(B)-SM*
Orifice: 0.032"
Cv: 0.004 (at 10 turn full open)
double pattern, dual handles
Cv: 0.001 ( at 10 turn full open)
owned

Ham-Let HXF1300 series metering valve, 1 degree stem angle, Part number HXF13??-*-*
Orifice: 0.03"
Cv: 0.004 (at 11 turn full open)

Hoke Micromite 1600 series metering valve.
Orifice: 0.031"
Cv: 0.0008 (at 18 turn full open)
owned

Parker Hannifin HR series, Stem type 0, Part number: *-H0?-*-*-*
Orifice:N/A
Cv: 0.0004 (at 15 turn full open)

Chell Ultra-Fine Mechanism Needle Valve, needle 1 model, Made in UK
Orifice: N/A
Cv: N/A
(The lowest flow rate valve I know, for our application. 20 turn full open. Max flow rate is 20 SCCM(standard cubic centimeter per minute), which is 0.02 liter per minute at full open, 145psi pressure differential. Listed price: $500+, manufacture handling/shipping: $115, Total cost to get it in the us $600+.)
owned.

Vacoa valve
0-1.8CC, the spaceship valve, flow rate too low, not for our fish tank.

(On going, next : Aalborg. )


Please let me know if you see any other metering valves that not here and can be used in our DIY CO2 pressurized system.




what solenoid do you want to use?

Clippard solenoid(MME-2SDS-*), and Burkert 6011 solenoid are the most commonly seen in our application, they are 1/8" NPT ports and ready to fit pipe fittings.
but they are 6.5 watt and 4 watt power consumption and create a lot of heat for 8 hours on, also, the fluid media(CO2) flow is never fast enough to draw away the heat. The heat, creates core melting, metal(spring) fatigue, cracked O-ring problems, and shorten the lives of these valves.
Burkert is a tag better because it is 4 watt and create less heat than a Clippard(MME-2SDS-*).
Parker Skinner B series 1/8" NPT ports solenoid valves(6 watt, 7 watt) are not that common, but actually better, because they are full metal body, faster heat dispatch than the said Clippard and the Burkert.
Parker Skinner C series solenoid valves are even better, 1/8" NPT ports, full metal body and only 2 or 3 watt power consumption, but hard to find one.
The clippard mouse solenoid is the best I know so far, only 0.67 watt power consumption and designed for low flow applications(that is our setups), 1 billion official on/off cycle life, full metal body, doesn't even feel warm when operate. But this valve is not 1/8" NPT ports ready, need adapters or sometimes, need some metal working to make them connect to pipe fittings.

These solenoid valve are all high quality industrial valves, they all have on/off cycle lives that is not less than 100 million. Failed solenoid are commonly seem in our applications because the way we use it, for at least 7 hours on and the fluid is not be able to take away the heat. Constantly heated/overheated condition shorten the lives of solenoid valves and fail them.
So whichever creates less heat(less power consumption) wins.


How to adjust the bubble rate.
For no pressure in the post body system start up.
1. set the output pressure of the regulator at 30-50 psi.
2. close all needle valves, turn on the solenoid.
3. open the needle valve, slowly, monitor the bubble rate, every time you turn the needle valve, wait 20 seconds or longer, depends on how long the tubing from the needle valve to the diffuser, the longer the tubing, the longer time you need to wait. stop when the desire bubble rate reach.
4. (this step omitted if using a reactor-no backward pressure)wait until the diffuser starts cracking out bubbles, then wait 20 minutes.
5. Adjust the needle valve again, 20 seconds or longer waiting time each time you turn the needle valve, once the desire bubble rate reach, stop.
6. let the system run for half an hour.
7A. if there is no change of bubble rate after half an hour, you can lock the locking handle of the needle valve(for SMC AS1200 needle valve), and it is all done.
7B. if there is no signification change of the bubble rate, repeat step 5 and 6.
7C. if there is significant change of the bubble rate after half an hour, use soapy water leak check the system, from the outlet of the regulator to the diffuser(if no leak, what is the needle valve you use?)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The Metering(Needle) Valve Selection for CO2 Pressurized System
Complete Leak check, Double Stage Regulator Pressurized system


can I buy this valvs from you??
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Old 08-18-2013, 09:30 AM   #255
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The vernier handle is the best I've seen so far, with Turn Counter.
and the orifice of this valve is off scale, really small. Small orifice and low CV, the actual flow rate is suppose to be really small, but need to test it, which haven't done yet.

where can I get this valv? this looks exakly what I am loking for ,, can this also controll liquid ?
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