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Old 04-21-2013, 12:11 AM   #16
zdnet
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Originally Posted by ravensgate View Post
Their diet is varied every single day and they are fed protein twice a week
How about carbohydrates? When a shrimp is fasting, it draws on glucose as its main source of energy. Therefore, when the diet is low in carbohydrates, a just-molted shrimp may not have the required energy to escape.
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:30 AM   #17
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They get spinach, kale, zucchini 3 times a week, protein twice a week (earthworm powder, ebiken EI, etc) and processed foods such as Benibachi, Mosura, Repashy, etc the other 2 days a week. I can't fathom that anything would be missing in their diet. They eat better than I do.

And it's not about energy necessarily. Have you seen a shrimp molt? Their legs literally don't work for about 2-5 minutes after they molt and just flop about, inverting at times until they build up the strength and hardness for their legs to move properly. It's not about being soft or not having energy, if they get caught in those first couple of minutes they are toast. My thing is, there was zero reason for it being as how food was in the tank and that particular amano had been eating for two solid hours prior.
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:47 AM   #18
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Default Amano aggression?

There's nothing wrong with putting them with your betta, the betta won't harm it. I would rather sleep without worrying about the amano attacking the shrimps.
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Old 04-21-2013, 01:35 AM   #19
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And it's not about energy necessarily. Have you seen a shrimp molt? Their legs literally don't work for about 2-5 minutes after they molt and just flop about, inverting at times until they build up the strength and hardness for their legs to move properly. It's not about being soft or not having energy, if they get caught in those first couple of minutes they are toast.
What you have described is true for a very weak shrimp.

I have photographed shrimp while they were molting. They came out of their molt and then _immediately_ behaved as usual by moving around and picking on things.
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Old 04-21-2013, 01:41 AM   #20
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What you have described is true for a very weak shrimp.

I have photographed shrimp while they were molting. They came out of their molt and then _immediately_ behaved as usual by moving around and picking on things.

Never seen any shrimp act any differently, even with different diets (I have several tanks of shrimp, all fed varying different diets). So if this is the case then what are carbohydrate dense foods? I seriously cannot FATHOM they are missing something in their diets. What are you feeding that makes your shrimp speed away after molting? The act of molting itself and what that entails would leave any shrimp weaker than it was before. Unless I'm missing something entirely. So yes, please, advise.
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Old 04-21-2013, 01:42 AM   #21
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Default Amano aggression?

My cherries does that, but cherries are tanks. All my other shrimps hides after they molt :<
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Old 04-21-2013, 02:08 AM   #22
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My cherries does that, but cherries are tanks. All my other shrimps hides after they molt :<
Yeah, I've never heard of a shrimp going about it's business after a molt personally. Any animal that molts/sheds a skin will hide afterwards including snakes. So I'm just wondering what their missing in their diet.
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Old 04-21-2013, 03:41 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by ravensgate View Post
Never seen any shrimp act any differently, even with different diets (I have several tanks of shrimp, all fed varying different diets). So if this is the case then what are carbohydrate dense foods? I seriously cannot FATHOM they are missing something in their diets. What are you feeding that makes your shrimp speed away after molting? The act of molting itself and what that entails would leave any shrimp weaker than it was before. Unless I'm missing something entirely. So yes, please, advise.
I feed only spinach (high in carbohydrate and protein) and stay clear of processed foods (what shrimp like may not necessary good for them). I also avoid kale (for its lack of amino acids) and zucchini (for its high glucose - shrimp do not cope well with a glucose load).

BTW, shrimp can be induced to molt frequently. That means they may not be able to feed themselves well before the next molt. Thus, very weak after a molt.
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Old 04-21-2013, 04:22 AM   #24
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Kale kicks spinach's butt in all areas...amino acids included. Kale is about hands down one of the best veggies nutrition wise you can feed shrimp.

http://skipthepie.org/vegetables-and...o/spinach-raw/

And if all processed food was bad for shrimp I'm sure we'd be hearing it from breeders. Nothing like a negative impact to get people chattering.

And yes, I know shrimp can be induced to molt...I also know how to avoid it.

At this point I feel this topic has gotten horribly derailed. We'll just have to agree to disagree on the subject of diet. Like I said, I have several shrimp tanks, diet varies in each. Anything that sheds an exoskeleton will be weaker afterwards...sure, diet can affect it. When I'm talking an OEBT that's 1-1 1/4" long vs a near 2 1/2" amano it doesn't even matter if the shrimp was weak or not. My problem is the amano took advantage of the situation. I remedied all future situations

I feed carrot and other carbohydrate dense foods (went and researched) so in my case I don't think the argument is valid.
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Old 04-21-2013, 04:42 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by ravensgate View Post
Kale kicks spinach's butt in all areas...amino acids included. Kale is about hands down one of the best veggies nutrition wise you can feed shrimp.

http://skipthepie.org/vegetables-and...o/spinach-raw/
Your above citation claimed that according to the USDA data, kale has a whole bunch of amino acids.

But the reality is that USDA does NOT say so: USDA data on kale.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravensgate View Post
I feed carrot and other carbohydrate dense foods (went and researched) so in my case I don't think the argument is valid.
BTW, just noticed that you did not mention carrot or carbohydrate dense foods in your earlier post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravensgate View Post
They get spinach, kale, zucchini 3 times a week, protein twice a week (earthworm powder, ebiken EI, etc) and processed foods such as Benibachi, Mosura, Repashy, etc the other 2 days a week.
What are those carbohydrate dense food that you fed?

Last edited by zdnet; 04-21-2013 at 04:57 AM.. Reason: BTW
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Old 04-21-2013, 08:01 AM   #26
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Amanos like food, really nothing you can do about it lol
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:58 PM   #27
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BTW, just noticed that you did not mention carrot or carbohydrate dense foods in your earlier post:


Yeah, I said 'etc' in my earlier post. I have well over 30 different foods I feed my tanks. Folks that know me know my obsession with shrimp foods and products. LOL.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:24 AM   #28
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Amanos like food, really nothing you can do about it lol
Blaming an amano for taking advantages of a weak OEBT is like blaming nature for not following our wish. It was a human decision to stock amanos with OEBTs that are only half of the amano's size and are too weak to even run away.

Shrimp are well adapted to the fasting required before a molt. Although not at their peak condition, healthy shrimp with good nutrition still have good strength right after a molt. That is because while fasting they draw on their reserves from the hepatopancreas. After the molt, they replenish the reserves. But if that cycle of drawing from the reserves and replenishing afterward is not well maintained, shrimp will be weakened.

Before actually coming out from a molt, a healthy shrimp has already loosen its living tissues from the cuticles. Therefore, the act of coming out is quick and clean. Yes, the shell of the newly emerged shrimp is still on the soft side. But make no mistake, its legs are immediately functioning after the molt. A shrimp whose legs just flop about several minutes after a molt definitely has issues.

Something seemingly as simple as having a clean molt can be affected by diet. I was once recommended a commercial shrimp food. After using it for a while I started noticing red spots on molt - an early indicator of sticky molting. After stopping the food, the red spots disappeared.

When cuticles stick to living tissues, molting becomes very energy demanding. Shrimp have to pull really hard in order to tear sticky tissues away from the molt. Molting becomes a hazard.

With the way manufacturers making a mess of the processed
human food human food
and
dog food dog food
, it requires a tremendous leap of faith to rely on commercial shrimp food.

The lesson: whole food is far superior over processed food.
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:35 AM   #29
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Let's keep the discussion on topic, folks.
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:45 AM   #30
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There's a bit of grey area around how aggression is interpreted in this thread.

Bettas are aggressors that will easily tear each other apart till one dies.

Various cichlids are known to be territorial and will be combative either to compete for a mate or defining their property lines

Tigers (I've kept TTs) are known to mate with anything in the tank where often need a gender balanced population to keep the peace.

Amanos are renowned for their insatiable appetite.

Maybe aggressive isn't the word for this thread but rather, "extremely hungry" would better frame the discussion. I'm usually of the camp of "why isnt my amano eating more " than the "why is my amano killing my X" as the reasons ought to be obvious.
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