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Old 04-20-2013, 04:40 AM   #61
Lhonskiboy
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Originally Posted by Clemsons2k View Post
I have to control myself every time I go to a store that sells fish. I hear the misinformation and want to soooo badly correct the person(s), but I also hate it when I go somewhere and some nosy fellow customer butts his/her head into a sale and tries to correct people. So I keep my mouth closed to keep from being "that guy".

I will say though its very refreshing when someone working the fish section actually knows most of what they're talking about. I had a lovely conversation with a guy working at Petco a couple weeks ago about planted tanks.
Do some research first with the fish that you're planning to buy some of the staff are morons and have no clue in what they're selling. Good example PETSMART!
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Old 04-20-2013, 06:55 AM   #62
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good fish breeders do a lot of culling. and not the nice culling of seperating them and selling them for cheap. butcher knife--concrete floor--freezer-- sort of culling.

there are even farms where they raise fish just to be killed and eaten.

I like fish. I like them in my belly and I like them in my tank.

But fish are fish. They aren't smart and they aren't dumb. They are just fish and they do what fish do. Does a pleco really care if it is in a tank that is too small? Who decided the tank was too small, I hope the pleco was consulted?

Maybe the pleco is happy to be in a 20 gallon tank as long as it has food to eat and it stays wet. Maybe fish can't be happy because maybe they don't have emotions.

Maybe rather than limiting fish species that can be sold in stores, if we are taking the legal route, we should instead make it illegal to sell any aquarium less than 125gallon. Then having fish that get too big wouldn't be an issue.

Or maybe, if we really care and want to make a difference we as a community and as individuals should stop buying our tetras, our bettas, our ottos,ur loaches and our $1 a gallon aquariums from business that we feel are behaving unethically.

Or maybe, to get back on topic, we make the issue not about BUYING fish but about releasing them. Nail and Hammer approach.
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Old 04-20-2013, 09:33 AM   #63
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Though I do agree with the argument that pet stores should... (plainly put) have standards e.g. give customers the right type of information on the animals they sell- I don't believe it's entirely their fault.

These ex-owners have to take responsibility for just dumping these creatures anywhere (and I'm talking about pets in general). These people owe it to the pets they adopt to give it a chance. Is it really all that hard to call into your local fish-specialty store and see if they're willing to take it off your hands? Its ridiculous that anyone would think its okay to dump these guys just anywhere. You can only play the "ignorance" card so long before you need to own up to your actions. .
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Old 04-20-2013, 09:37 AM   #64
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These ex-owners have to take responsibility for just dumping these creatures anywhere (and I'm talking about pets in general). These people owe it to the pets they adopt to give it a chance. Is it really all that hard to call into your local fish-specialty store and see if they're willing to take it off your hands? Its ridiculous that anyone would think its okay to dump these guys just anywhere. You can only play the "ignorance" card so long before you need to own up to your actions. .
Or lets be honest, sometimes you have to put an animal down. If done in such a way as to minimize or eliminate suffering, or even if it is not. It is what needs to be done.

anyone hear of carpage cans?
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Old 04-20-2013, 03:24 PM   #65
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Lack of basic science education hurts us in this regard as well. Most of my co-workers (for example) are barely cognizant that there's any life at all in the local lakes other than "bugs, ugly catfish and some trout". A pleco is just another ugly catfish to them. I've even had one person excuse her release of some oscars into the local canal by saying she was "contributing to a dwindling bio-diversity". Way to learn the jargon and miss the lesson, eh?

Or as one person put it to me while I was decrying the growing presence of starlings in our area, "A bird is a bird is a bird; who cares what type it is?".
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:26 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dprais1 View Post
good fish breeders do a lot of culling. and not the nice culling of seperating them and selling them for cheap. butcher knife--concrete floor--freezer-- sort of culling.

there are even farms where they raise fish just to be killed and eaten.

I like fish. I like them in my belly and I like them in my tank.

But fish are fish. They aren't smart and they aren't dumb. They are just fish and they do what fish do. Does a pleco really care if it is in a tank that is too small? Who decided the tank was too small, I hope the pleco was consulted?

Maybe the pleco is happy to be in a 20 gallon tank as long as it has food to eat and it stays wet. Maybe fish can't be happy because maybe they don't have emotions.

Maybe rather than limiting fish species that can be sold in stores, if we are taking the legal route, we should instead make it illegal to sell any aquarium less than 125gallon. Then having fish that get too big wouldn't be an issue.

Or maybe, if we really care and want to make a difference we as a community and as individuals should stop buying our tetras, our bettas, our ottos,ur loaches and our $1 a gallon aquariums from business that we feel are behaving unethically.

Or maybe, to get back on topic, we make the issue not about BUYING fish but about releasing them. Nail and Hammer approach.

Let's face a sad reality:
Most people out there buying these fish have no idea about what they are putting in their tanks. Even more importantly THEY DON'T CARE what they are putting in their tanks and/or releasing when they get bothersome. How can you educate someone that doesn't care? I think that with the availability of the bristlenose becoming more and more prevalent, we can and should stop the general sale of common plecos. One of the LFS that I frequent doesn't even sell the common plecos, only bristlenose.

Having said that, I do not think they should be illegal to own. I have a 125 gallon tank that houses a couple of large plecos that otherwise would be dead or swimming where they shouldn't be. There are conscientious people out there that can and do support the true needs of these fish, at least to the extent possible inside a normal household setting.

Education is indeed needed, but I think the stores could also share the burden by not making them available to the general customer. Maybe they could be one of the "special orders".
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Old 04-20-2013, 05:25 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Knotyoureality View Post
Lack of basic science education hurts us in this regard as well.....
I think you hit it on the head right there. There are a lot of factors why people think its ok to just dump fish in any waterway but the lack of education these days is a big contributor IMO.
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Old 04-20-2013, 05:38 PM   #68
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let not focus so much on those releasing them, but instead focus on the fish stores that sell a fish that gets to 2' in length to folks buying 10g tanks.

these common pleco should be illegal to sell.
I agree, most newbie fish keepers don't have enough space to properly care for a large pleco, they just get one because their parents always had one or because the LFS says they keep the tank clean.
One of the worst offenders with plecos in my area is the Big Al's... Every time I go in there I see a 40 gallon tank with 20-50 young plecos for cheap cheap and they sell the damn things to newbies (sometimes they even put them on sale) then when the fish gets too big they will refuse to take them back because they "have too many large plecos already". Well La De Da, I guess you shouldn't have sold so many to people with small tanks.

It's like green Iguanas in the reptile world, they are a damnable plague upon reptile rescue groups because NO ONE wants a fully grown, poorly socialized, irritable 6' lizard. Fortunately many stores (in my area at least) are no longer carrying them and have stopped selling them even on special order but I know that iguana babies are still popular in some places.

Make em illegal or require a permit for a common pleco and scenes like the OP will become a lot less common.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:43 PM   #69
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I've seen in mentioned a few times on this last page. I think the best solution to this problem is for the stores to simply stop selling these tankbuster fishes (easier said than done, I know). Selling a bristlenose over a common or bolivian ram over an oscar. Have these tankbuster fish be on "special order." They would still be accessible to people that have the desire and ability to house a fish of that size. It is my wish that this will one day happen, and I do my best to support stores that do things like this and encourage other people to do the same.

The problem with making them strictly illegal is that the govt often sweeps too wide with things like this. Take the illegalization of the Channa genus. There are only a handful of fish in that genus that pose a threat to waterways, and some very beautiful fish are banned from the hobby because of it. I'm afraid the govt wouldn't see it's just a couple of species causing a problem, and would blanket ban anything called a "pleco" or worse any loricarid catfish!

Some additional reading for those interested:
PFK: White lists? (New this weekend)
PFK: Will you support the big fish campaign? (An interesting article from last year)
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Old 07-22-2013, 03:27 PM   #70
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I am so glad that the local chain store by me is good. I mean the employees know what they are talking about and have said to me many time that "I wouldn't do that as the fish will get way to big for your tank". I have also done research on certain fish and then put them to the test. I'll ask questions I know the answer to just to see what they say. They are almost always right.
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Old 07-23-2013, 02:42 AM   #71
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I don't understand how people cannot think before releasing fish/plants into local waterways. I mean even in Alaska we are having problems with anachris (i think it is anachris) in the local river and it gets really cold/frozen in the winter yet the plant still survives. I don't think we will have problems with fish from tanks surviving, but why risk it? The petco by me adopts fish if you cannot keep them anymore. In a place like florida where it is warm, a fish like mollies (or anything else that multiplies like crazy) could really mess up a small lake's ecosystem.
I think people need more education not only about the fish they are buying, but also about how much invasive fish/plants can ruin an ecosystem.
If people are releasing their fish on the basis that "it won't make it through the winter", why not just put it to sleep them and prevent any accidents?
I've thought about working at a fish store just so I can be an educated employee who can help people from making good choices that are size appropriate.

On another note-make sure the plants/fish you buy online from other members or websites are legal to mail and have in your state because if it isn't, it is illegal for a reason-possibly because it has the potential to be invasive in your area.
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Old 07-23-2013, 03:14 AM   #72
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Last time I tried to help out a few customer's at a Petco, it was a mom and her daughter. The daughter was running around pointing at every tank saying, I'll take one of these and two of those, the mom was just nodding and the employees were getting the fish. the mom was carring an empty 5g tank in her hands and a sample bottle of food and cheap tetra conditioner. The daughter pointed at a tank full of oscar and she already had bought a bunch of tetra. I told her mom the pretty orange fish would eat the smaller colorful fish in a simple voice. She looked at the salesman who shook his head. Then I tried further to explain to her mom the basics of fishkeeping and the daughter started crying. I was like, 'oops', and then the mom started yelling at me and HERE COMES THE DAD! Needless to say I was gone in a flash. Scared me so bad I swore never to even talk to other customers at an lfs I didn't know even if they asked for advice or their was a man with a bomb strapped to his chest demanding I speak. As much as I hate to see fish struggle in captivity that was just too traumatic.
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