hate this algae..can't find the name - Page 2
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > Specific Aspects of a Planted Tank > Algae


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-18-2013, 11:08 PM   #16
bababooey
Algae Grower
 
bababooey's Avatar
 
PTrader: (21/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 141
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkCobra View Post
Unhealthy leaves=staghorn
Too much light with too little flow and/or CO2=staghorn
Too much flow and/or CO2=staghorn
Too much light, flow, and CO2=LOTS OF STAGHORN
So you need healthy leaves, just the right amount of light, just the right amount of flow, and just the right amount of co2.

While I can understand how unhealthy leaves, too much light, and even too much flow could cause staghorn.....you can also get staghorn from 'too much' co2??
bababooey is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-18-2013, 11:23 PM   #17
happi
Planted Tank Guru
 
happi's Avatar
 
PTrader: (20/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 2,767
Send a message via Yahoo to happi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bababooey View Post
So you need healthy leaves, just the right amount of light, just the right amount of flow, and just the right amount of co2.

While I can understand how unhealthy leaves, too much light, and even too much flow could cause staghorn.....you can also get staghorn from 'too much' co2??
i can understand cutting the leaves will work fine, but how about when you have this algae on rocks, wood, spray bar etc, do we cut them too?
__________________
happi is offline  
Old 03-18-2013, 11:26 PM   #18
DarkCobra
Planted Tank Guru
 
DarkCobra's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 3,349
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by happi View Post
in those cases we will see staghorn algae in all tanks
It is not an algae that exists in all aquariums, and is always ready to make an appearance, like GSA. I never saw it at all in many years of keeping planted tanks, no matter the parameters, or how well or poorly they were set up.

Then I got a new plant. I saw algae on it, which I didn't find out until later was staghorn. So I dipped the plant. Then I put that plant in my most stable tank, in which all algae magically withered away; confident that anything the dip didn't kill would also suffer the same fate. I was wrong.

So no, we would not expect to see staghorn in all tanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by happi View Post
if Mg and Ca is not the cause then what causes it?
Already posted my explanation of cause. And if staghorn isn't present, then the same conditions that support staghorn growth, if just a little more favorable, produce BBA instead. Which is much more common, present and ready to strike in all tanks.

Since staghorn can be completely absent, I think it may be possible to achieve total extinction of it as well; so that it can never reappear unless reintroduced. I periodically push conditions into favorable areas to see how well it's working. And though I haven't yet achieved extinction, I'm making some progress - these pushes now generate more BBA than staghorn. Strange as it may sound, I prefer BBA!

Quote:
Originally Posted by happi View Post
it seems to spread no matter whatever changes i make
Heh. I know that feeling well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by happi View Post
i did notice that it seems to spread more when Ca is way less than Mg. am still testing it and i cannot be 100% certain if this relate to Mg and Ca.
But when Ca is way less than Mg, that's not good for the plants. And so this fulfills one of the conditions I've stated encourages staghorn growth. Eliminating this condition will only slow it if any of the other conditions still exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by happi View Post
i am testing many algae in my tanks to find out what really causes them. i will soon report on my research.
All tests welcome. Shoot me a PM linking to your thread when you report, I'd love to see what you've found.

Quote:
Originally Posted by happi View Post
am not sure how much truth there is to this:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...s-summary.html
Ack, I typed PPS in my previous post. I really meant MCI. That's what I followed, and no help.
DarkCobra is offline  
Old 03-18-2013, 11:26 PM   #19
houseofcards
Planted Tank Guru
 
houseofcards's Avatar
 
PTrader: (55/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,612
Default

BBA grows on filter outlets for the same reason it grows on driftwood, slow growing plants and other objects because of a buildup of organics. Many times these objects are closer to a light source as well. Even on filter returns, organic deposits build up in the pores of the plastic, glass, etc and becomes a hotbed for BBA. The fact that the filter tube is in a high-flow area is pretty much incidental.
houseofcards is offline  
Old 03-18-2013, 11:42 PM   #20
happi
Planted Tank Guru
 
happi's Avatar
 
PTrader: (20/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 2,767
Send a message via Yahoo to happi
Default

Darkcobra

what if you have both Staghorn and black brush algae?? sorry if i did not understand your last post
__________________
happi is offline  
Old 03-18-2013, 11:51 PM   #21
DarkCobra
Planted Tank Guru
 
DarkCobra's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 3,349
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofcards View Post
BBA grows on filter outlets for the same reason it grows on driftwood, slow growing plants and other objects because of a buildup of organics. Many times these objects are closer to a light source as well. Even on filter returns, organic deposits build up in the pores of the plastic, glass, etc and becomes a hotbed for BBA. The fact that the filter tube is in a high-flow area is pretty much incidental.
Organics may be a factor, I won't rule that out.

But it will also grow happily on a powerhead, which isn't a huge reservoir of organics like a filter. And plants exposed to direct flow from that powerhead. While other plants exposed to the same light intensity, but not direct flow, remain BBA/staghorn free. If plants are at the same lighting and the same flow, it makes virtually no difference whether the flow is from a powerhead or filter.

In the last thread we participated in, you make it clear you do not use powerheads; as you find them too ugly, and consider generally accepted flow guidelines excessive as well. So it's not surprising your observations wouldn't include these factors.
DarkCobra is offline  
Old 03-19-2013, 12:01 AM   #22
DarkCobra
Planted Tank Guru
 
DarkCobra's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 3,349
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by happi View Post
what if you have both Staghorn and black brush algae?? sorry if i did not understand your last post
They are not 100% mutually exclusive. But once one gets established on a particular leaf or area of the tank, it does seem to exclude the other, at least at that exact spot. Doesn't mean you can't have both in different areas.

I interpret the shift from staghorn to BBA, when I push the parameters, to mean that there is less staghorn in the form of spores or whatnot; so the BBA establishes itself first.
DarkCobra is offline  
Old 03-19-2013, 12:15 AM   #23
happi
Planted Tank Guru
 
happi's Avatar
 
PTrader: (20/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 2,767
Send a message via Yahoo to happi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkCobra View Post
They are not 100% mutually exclusive. But once one gets established on a particular leaf or area of the tank, it does seem to exclude the other, at least at that exact spot. Doesn't mean you can't have both in different areas.

I interpret the shift from staghorn to BBA, when I push the parameters, to mean that there is less staghorn in the form of spores or whatnot; so the BBA establishes itself first.
i have both and its mostly on where the flow hits, its not on any of the plants. to be honest it was there even when i was using GH booster and EI dosing, high co2 doesn't help either.

so 4:1 Ca Mg ratio did not help it, am trying the 1:4 Mg Ca ratio and we will see how it goes, i use 100% RO/Di water and use gram scale, so i should be very accurate at my dosing.

looking at the MCI method, he does seem to have nice looking tanks with no algae.
__________________
happi is offline  
Old 03-19-2013, 12:22 AM   #24
DarkCobra
Planted Tank Guru
 
DarkCobra's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 3,349
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bababooey View Post
While I can understand how unhealthy leaves, too much light, and even too much flow could cause staghorn.....you can also get staghorn from 'too much' co2??
It seems weird, I know. But algae needs CO2 too, right?

If you think about it, it would be weirder for CO2 to suddenly transition from a needed nutrient, to an algaecide, at a particular level. And that level being different in each tank. Take a tank that needs 30ppm CO2 to keep algae away. Reduce the light a bit, and it may need only 15ppm to do the same, because that's all the plants need. Nothing magic about 30ppm at all.
DarkCobra is offline  
Old 03-19-2013, 02:24 PM   #25
houseofcards
Planted Tank Guru
 
houseofcards's Avatar
 
PTrader: (55/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,612
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkCobra View Post
Organics may be a factor, I won't rule that out.

But it will also grow happily on a powerhead, which isn't a huge reservoir of organics like a filter. And plants exposed to direct flow from that powerhead. While other plants exposed to the same light intensity, but not direct flow, remain BBA/staghorn free. If plants are at the same lighting and the same flow, it makes virtually no difference whether the flow is from a powerhead or filter.
Either you misunderstood or you really don't have a grasp here. There is plenty of organic build-up on a powerhead. Any pores in the plastic will house organics not to mention the stuff that get's stuck in the powerhead. IMO that is what's happening on the filter return as well as the powehead where water and other water column organics are sucked in. Have you ever removed a powerhead from a tank after it's been in there a while. It's usually covered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkCobra View Post
In the last thread we participated in, you make it clear you do not use powerheads; as you find them too ugly, and consider generally accepted flow guidelines excessive as well. So it's not surprising your observations wouldn't include these factors.
I don't use powerheads since they aren't necessary in 99% of tanks that as I stated are rectangles and are usually between 2 and 4 ft. Most filters work fine in terms of flow. I don't think anyone would find them attractive. If it's a must it's a must, but that is definitely not the case here so why have another piece of equipment and cord coming from your setup.

In that other thread you made a statement that reef and fish-only tanks don't use powerheads since they rely only on mechanical and chemical filtration and they must use filters only. If that is what you believe than you are very much misinformed, since the powerhead is used all the time in those types of setups to move waste into the filters. Do you even have any experience with reefs and large fish-only setups? Doesn't seem like you do.

Stlll trying to figure out the ADA reference you made to me (since you never replied), which was completely off-base since anyone can look at my pics and see the many different suppliers products I use, but now that you mentioned it. ADA is certainly a predominant company in planted aquaria, publishes books, guides, training, sells every product connected with maintaining a planted tank, etc, etc, but when you look through their catalog, guess what, no powerheads, and the filters their using appear to be 2-3x flow out of the box. Why is that?
houseofcards is offline  
Old 03-19-2013, 05:20 PM   #26
DarkCobra
Planted Tank Guru
 
DarkCobra's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 3,349
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofcards View Post
Either you misunderstood or you really don't have a grasp here. There is plenty of organic build-up on a powerhead. Any pores in the plastic will house organics not to mention the stuff that get's stuck in the powerhead. IMO that is what's happening on the filter return as well as the powehead where water and other water column organics are sucked in. Have you ever removed a powerhead from a tank after it's been in there a while. It's usually covered.
Plastic is not that porous. Even if it were, you're speaking as if the capability to hold and release organics is identical for both a filter which contains enormous surface area in the form of filter media, and a small plastic powerhead. This is simply beyond any comparison.

You're right that a neglected powerhead can still get rather dirty, but as part of my personal maintenance regimen I pick debris off if present, every couple of days, to avoid losing flow - since only a single large leaf can significantly restrict it, and it's easier to reach than my filter intakes. Plus I usually spritz with H2O2 during weekly water changes, when they're no longer submersed. Especially on the open Koralia-style which I favor, this keeps them nice and clean. So that's not a factor in my observations, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofcards View Post
I don't use powerheads since they aren't necessary in 99% of tanks that as I stated are rectangles and are usually between 2 and 4 ft.
This is the only reason I mentioned that other thread at all. Because you're disputing something here, that by your own statements, you have little experience with due to your personal tank style. That, at least, is relevant.

Beyond that, I have no desire to carry old and irrelevant debates over to a new thread, as the rest of your post attempts to do. I stopped replying because you persisted in being insulting and combative, despite my attempts to remain civil. Just as you're again doing in making statements like "you really don't have a grasp here". Or repeatedly challenging my experience and misquoting me on random things like reefkeeping, which were never relevant in any thread. None of that has any place here. If you cannot express a difference of opinion without making it personal, then remain silent, as I won't tolerate it further.
DarkCobra is offline  
Old 03-19-2013, 05:28 PM   #27
houseofcards
Planted Tank Guru
 
houseofcards's Avatar
 
PTrader: (55/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,612
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkCobra View Post
Plastic is not that porous. Even if it were, you're speaking as if the capability to hold and release organics is identical for both a filter which contains enormous surface area in the form of filter media, and a small plastic powerhead. This is simply beyond any comparison.

You're right that a neglected powerhead can still get rather dirty, but as part of my personal maintenance regimen I pick debris off if present, every couple of days, to avoid losing flow - since only a single large leaf can significantly restrict it, and it's easier to reach than my filter intakes. Plus I usually spritz with H2O2 during weekly water changes, when they're no longer submersed. Especially on the open Koralia-style which I favor, this keeps them nice and clean. So that's not a factor in my observations, either.

This is the only reason I mentioned that other thread at all. Because you're disputing something here, that by your own statements, you have little experience with due to your personal tank style. That, at least, is relevant.

Beyond that, I have no desire to carry old and irrelevant debates over to a new thread, as the rest of your post attempts to do. I stopped replying because you persisted in being insulting and combative, despite my attempts to remain civil. Just as you're again doing in making statements like "you really don't have a grasp here". Or repeatedly challenging my experience in random things like reefkeeping, which were never relevant in any thread. None of that has any place here. If you cannot express a difference of opinion without making it personal, then remain silent, as I won't tolerate it further.
Please go through your post and see who has been insulting. You simply can't admit that you are incorrect or understand another point of view, even when 'real evidence' is right there. You've stated things like 'overhead my head' and 'marketing for ADA' when you have no valid reply. If any MOD is reading this please go through the post (I know you have better things to do) and see who is insulting to who. I'm only replying to what seems like your arrogant attitude.

Look at the statement you just made that I bolded. There is simply no truth to that and you can look at my pictures and see my different setups. I use a tiny fraction of ADA products. How can I not have experience if I'm running tanks now without powerheads and immense flow. I've used powerheads when I first started and deemed them an unnecessary piece of equipment. That is straight from experience.
houseofcards is offline  
Old 03-19-2013, 05:55 PM   #28
somewhatshocked
Obsessed? Maybe
 
somewhatshocked's Avatar
 
PTrader: (435/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 11,506
Default

Come on - keep it friendly. You don't have to like everyone but you have to treat them with respect.

If this continues, temporary suspensions are coming.

Unfortunately have to close this thread.
somewhatshocked is online now  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012