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Old 03-04-2013, 11:38 PM   #106
DarkCobra
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Always the most common 3% H2O2 peroxide, as found in grocery and drug stores. At least in the US, somewhere overseas may be different. If it's a different concentration, adjust the dosage accordingly.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:34 PM   #107
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tank background

125g
FX5 with 5 foot spraybar
pressurized co2
IE dosing
45 cardinal tetras
12 amano shrimp

LOW plant mass. DHG, HC, Blyxa Jap, LOTS of fiss.

Tank has been up and running since November. I have had very little algae from day one. I bit of BGA, very little, Rhizo here and there, a ton of string algae and i was cleaning GSA off the glass every few days

About Christmas time i started getting the first of the BBA popping up. I increased my co2 and raised my light 3 inches so that they are now 36" above the substrate.

After a month and a half of manually removing and spot treating, it just wouldnt go away...

So i decide to try the 1-2 Punch.

I started with 2% H2O2. I noticed very little fissing initially.

3 days later:
No effect on the BBA, GSA, BGA, rhizo
weakening if the thread
NO effect the fish, shrimp, and plants

So the next WC days was Sunday. Exactly 7 days later i repeated the 1-2 punch with 3% H2O2

Initially there was alot of fizzing.

3 days later:
BBA- took a good hit. started to discolor
BGA- GONE
GSA-GONE
thread-GONE
Rhizo-GONE

Lost a few cardinals and amanos.
HC took a pretty good hit. Alot of discoloration to the leaves.


Today:
BBA is taking over again
Rhizo is going back with vengence like its mad at me
BGA popping up again. 3x what i had before the 1-2 punch

I am not too sure whats wrong and were to start making corrections

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Old 03-05-2013, 08:46 PM   #108
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Default The "One-Two Punch" Whole Tank Algae Treatment

I thought u were supposed to keep dosing excel after treatment? My HM and Macranthemum Umbrosum took a good hit too.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:58 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChadRamsey View Post
tank background

125g
FX5 with 5 foot spraybar
pressurized co2
IE dosing
45 cardinal tetras
12 amano shrimp

LOW plant mass. DHG, HC, Blyxa Jap, LOTS of fiss.

Tank has been up and running since November. I have had very little algae from day one. I bit of BGA, very little, Rhizo here and there, a ton of string algae and i was cleaning GSA off the glass every few days

About Christmas time i started getting the first of the BBA popping up. I increased my co2 and raised my light 3 inches so that they are now 36" above the substrate.

After a month and a half of manually removing and spot treating, it just wouldnt go away...

So i decide to try the 1-2 Punch.

I started with 2% H2O2. I noticed very little fissing initially.

3 days later:
No effect on the BBA, GSA, BGA, rhizo
weakening if the thread
NO effect the fish, shrimp, and plants

So the next WC days was Sunday. Exactly 7 days later i repeated the 1-2 punch with 3% H2O2

Initially there was alot of fizzing.

3 days later:
BBA- took a good hit. started to discolor
BGA- GONE
GSA-GONE
thread-GONE
Rhizo-GONE

Lost a few cardinals and amanos.
HC took a pretty good hit. Alot of discoloration to the leaves.


Today:
BBA is taking over again
Rhizo is going back with vengence like its mad at me
BGA popping up again. 3x what i had before the 1-2 punch

I am not too sure whats wrong and were to start making corrections

What's your photo-period? What kind of lighting? I've found increasing CO2/ reducing light makes a difference, as does fine tuning EI depending on your plant mass instead of just on the size of the tank.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:03 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundragon View Post
What's your photo-period? What kind of lighting? I've found increasing CO2/ reducing light makes a difference, as does fine tuning EI depending on your plant mass instead of just on the size of the tank.

lighing: 2 36" Tek fixtures with 2x Giesemann Middays and 2x Flora bulbs

7 hours photo period. CO2 is up so high that i have to move them and the shrimp out.

my IE dosing is:

Monday: 1/2 tsp Plantex CSM+B, 1/4 tsp Mg (ei. MgS04-7H2O)
Tuesday: 1/2 KH2PO4, 1/2 CaNO3
Wednesday: 1/2 tsp Plantex CSM+B, 1/4 tsp Mg
Thursday: 1/2 KH2PO4, 1/2 CaNO3
Friday: 1/2 tsp Plantex CSM+B, 1/4 tsp Mg
Saturday: rest
Sunday: 50% WC, 1 tbsp GH Booster, 1 tsp baking soda, 1/2 KH2PO4, 1/2 CaNO3
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There are 2 types of people on this forum. Those that have algae, and those that lie and say they don't.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:09 PM   #111
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Chad, I took a look at part of your tank journal. Lights look about 36" from substrate. Hard to estimate exact lighting, but it seems in the ballpark, and not too much.

<<Edited out stupid question, don't know what I was thinking>> I'd do a nitrate test and see if you're overfertilizing. Unmodified EI plus lots of fish, and especially when there's not much plant mass, can do this. And will cause algae in my experience once it gets into extreme excesses. Further reducing plant mass will make it worse, algae counts as plant mass, and you had some side effects to your plants - which might explain the rapid rebound.

Also, I'm concerned about your flow. The FX5 is rated optimistically at 600GPH with filter media installed, probably less with the spray bar. And most of your plants are at the bottom, farthest away from the flow. The usual guideline is to have 10X more GPH than your tanks size, or 1,250GPH, to break up the surface tension on leaves sufficiently to carry CO2. I don't see any supplemental powerheads or such, though I might have missed something.

Last edited by DarkCobra; 03-05-2013 at 10:19 PM.. Reason: Brain farts
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:12 PM   #112
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Oh, one more thing! Using CaNO3 instead of KNO3 removes your primary source of potassium. The potassium from KH2PO4 is much smaller, and not enough. And I don't see where you've replaced the missing potassium with something like K2SO4.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:26 AM   #113
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DarkCobra will this technique work on dark red/brown algae? (It doesn't look like the diatoms that I first had when tank was started, this tank has been running for 1.5 years) This algae is coating the leaves of my plants and it rubs off easily, but it is getting slimy with little specs of fuzz on some leaves. This algae only appears on my plants, none on the glass. I also get green powder algae on my glass that I clean time to time probably once a month (this doesn't get too bad).

I have a finnex fugeray 30" with a 29 gallon tank (so my lighting is lower medium)
-run this light 8 hours a day with DIY C02 that I started recently
-Substrate is aquasoil
-I dont dose any ferts
-I don't really have nitrate/nitrite numbers because I don't currently have a testing kit but I do 25% water changes once a week.

I just want to clean the tank and apply this method before I get my cherry shrimps this Friday. Thank you for your help and insight.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:14 AM   #114
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P015, I don't think it's been tried specifically against that, though it seems effective against darn near everything.

It sounds like your plants are languishing. Growing slow. Old leaves with algae accumulating over time, and winning as the leaves' protective layer degrades. Plants not able to keep algae down in the tank as a whole. I'd definitely dose at least some minimal, but comprehensive ferts, and perk the plants up.

Despite having developed a technique which someone recently described to me as "nuking the algae from orbit" (love it!), I do often prefer to solve problems using minimal force. In your case, I'm sure it could be turned around by solving the underlying issue. Some manual cleaning, since it's easily removed algae, unlike many discussed here. Growing and trimming plants. Plus maybe a cleanup crew, many species eat soft algae. Ramshorns and otos love it, and cherries will probably enjoy munching on it too. Success is measured in weeks not days, but it will come just the same.

So that's my recommendation. The choice is up to you, of course. I do appreciate you have a window of opportunity to rapidly clear the algae, which closes when the shrimp arrive, and you may want to take advantage of. But you will still have to solve the underlying issue. If you don't, or if another issue appears, the algae will return and you'll no longer be able to safely use the One-Two. Better to use this as an immediate opportunity to practice and gain experience from turning a tank around using less intrusive techniques, IMO.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:41 AM   #115
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I really appreciate your thorough response and it is very helpful, so thank you! The problem with cleaning each of the leaves manually is that it would take many hours (especially for the small leaved plants). I think I will try this method just to thoroughly reach all the leaves and try for a fresh start.

I do have flourish comprehensive, but when I dosed it I got a powder green algae outbreak. I figured the algae was consuming all the nutrients so I stopped. Should I start dosing again even though I have aquasoil?

So this is my plan, use this method tomorrow before the shrimp arrive to try and weaken this algae. I will then try and clean it out. I will also buy some otos and Amano Shrimp, (but no ramshorn because I read they rapidly multiply) to combat future algae.

Is there anything else you advice me to do? I don't want to harm my plants though, so will probably dose a lower amount of excel due to jungle vals. Will the h202 negatively effect any of my plants?
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:56 AM   #116
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Flourish Comprehensive isn't really so comprehensive. Take a look at a partial chemical analysis:

Total Nitrogen: 0.07%
Available Phosphate (P2O5): 0.01%
Soluble Potash (Potassium): 0.37%
Iron (Fe): 0.32%

Notice that the macro nutrients are only included in trace quantities, less than or barely more than iron!

If a nutrient is very near zero, that is in fact a form of algae control. A system called PMDD used to take advantage of that, by keeping phosphorus in the water as close to zero as possible. It's just not a good form of algae control - if the water content doesn't have enough nutrients to support algae, it's even worse for the plants. They're essentially forced to rely on the nutrient content of the substrate alone, which may or may not be adequate.

Add a trace of the limiting nutrient to the water, what happens? The algae can now grow freely, they require little. But this won't substantially impact the plants, which require more. If they were sluggish or suffering before, they will still be, and unable to exert their full anti-algae effects on the tank - which would more than counteract the nutrient availability to algae.

So even though dosing Flourish Comprehensive might have been a small step in the right direction, it can actually make things worse.

Now Flourish Nitrogen/Phosphorus/Potassium are a different story. Their primary ingredients, combined for all three:

Total Nitrogen (N): 1.5%
Total Phosphate (P2O5): 0.3%
Soluble Potassium (K2O): 5.8%

Huge difference between using these and Comprehensive. If you really do have a macro nutrient deficiency, it will take these to solve it. Or some other quality brand of liquid ferts. Or dry ferts.

As for the nutrient content of Aquasoil, I'm afraid I know far too little about it to offer any accurate or helpful info; better to leave that to someone else.

Ramshorns do indeed multiply, in response to the food available. When that food is algae, that's actually a very good thing, with their population tending to adapt to your need for a cleanup crew. Once the algae growth is made minimal by solving any underlying problems, the ramshorn population eventually becomes small too. Though personal preference weighs heavily here - what I might consider a small snail population and a few eggs, some others might consider intolerable. And I do like snails, just as long as they're not pond snails, which multiply far more on smaller food supplies. If you're not sure, skip them for now, as they'll be hard (or impossible) to remove later. Otos and the shrimp should be fine.
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:03 AM   #117
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Oh, I forgot something, rather important at that.

Plants that are sensitive to Excel are sensitive to H2O2, and vica versa. So your vals are at risk from both, unless they're already well acclimated to Excel, maybe even to overdoses. Anacharis is considered the most Excel sensitive plant, and I have mine acclimated to the point where it doesn't even flinch at the full, original "One-Two" with 4tbsp. H2O2 per 10G; and neither does any other plant in my tank. So it is possible that you may have no negative effects on the plants, but not guaranteed.
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:51 PM   #118
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DarkCobra, Just wanted to thank you for this guide, it's taught me a lot. #subscribed
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:18 PM   #119
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I thought I'd post my experience to the collective. Mine is a bit different as I accidentally added a 3rd punch.

My initial algae outbreak was due to not realizing that once my CO2 runs out I can't just run the lights and ferts like normal for 5 days before getting the tank refilled. Finally getting the CO2 running again slowed the growth of the BBA and staghorn, but after 4 weeks i couldn't take it and perfomed the 1-2 punch per the originally outlined 4ml of peroxide per gallon...i was taking no chances on not killing everything. Livestock included 2 cardinal tetras, a cory, 3 amanos and tons of ramshorn and MTS snails (very low bioload for a tank this size).

Anyway, apparently I did not realize that I had a CO2 leak. 2 hours after completing the treatment I ran out of CO2 again. I ceased ferts and turned off the lights for the 4 days it took before I could refill the tank and solve the leak issue.

Adding the 4 day black-out (the 3rd punch) may or may not have contributed to eliminating the algae, but I think it hurt a few of my plants. My blyxa had been doing great and it almost completely died..I have a few small sprigs left that I think are recovering. My Pogostemon Erectus was similar. The lower portion died, but I've replanted the tops and they seem to be recovering. All my Bacopa and hygro varients were completely unphased.

I did lose 1 cardinal, but he was very old and had looked terrible for nearly 6 months...I was planning to put him down anyway. I also lost a ton of the ramshorns, but interestingly the MTS were fine.

Overall I would call it a success. I am considering just adding this to my normal process every 3 months or so when I need to clean out the canister...though I will likely cut the peroxide dose in half unless I have another major algae outbreak for some reason.
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Old 03-07-2013, 06:20 PM   #120
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Wow, that's an unusual and interesting experience, thanks for posting it!

I do hope the blyxa recovers, it's one of my favorites and I hate to see it killed. I also wish I knew why so many people seem to lose ramshorns, when mine are completely unfazed. Do check ammonia levels for a bit - always wise when you have a large snail die-off, for any reason.

As for using this on a regular schedule as a mild maintenance treatment or preventative, I've been toying with it. It has potential. Excellent flow, without flow through the biofilter, is still needed for the H2O2 part. H2O2/Excel dosages will have to be reduced to the point where it still has a noticeable effect on algae, without any risk to fauna/flora, even if this means the effect on algae isn't so dramatic. It seems that will have to be found experimentally - and individually. As everything in my tanks is so resistant to H2O2/Excel, especially the staghorn which originally prompted the development of the "One-Two Punch", I doubt any dosage which proves useful for me would be useful to anyone else.
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